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Combining RBNY supporters groups


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#31
irishapple21

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I think fans just aren't used to honesty in team names.  We like to pretend that these teams arose from community athletic clubs, when in reality they are all franchises of major corporations.  That's just the reality of modern professional sports.  Red Bull forced us to open our eyes and a lot of fans resent them for it.  Personally, I'm just here for the soccer, so I could care less, since the corporation is obviously committed to the club.  It's too bad that the supporters groups are still allowing this issue to cause division, all these years later.



#32
elf

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Agreed..but this is so frustrating already.  I've been a fan of this franchise since the beginning.  As a Metro fan, I HATED going to games at the Medowlands.  Let's face it...it SUCKED there.  Let's be honest about it.  10k people in that place made it feel like you were at a high school game.  Metro folded.  I love the Metro name and team, but guess what folks, Metro isn't the team name anymore.  There should be no arguement over what to call the team.  We are now RBNY.  Period.  End of story.  We all love the new arena right?  Do you think we would have had that with the old ownership group...probably not.  Do you think a guy like Henry would have come to play for Metro in the Medowlands...probably not.  Speaking only for myself, I have no problem supporting RED BULL NEW YORK.  That's who our team is.

metro never folded. the team changed its official name. However, the knickname "metro" is commonly used. how many time do you hear, " thats so metro"...ect. its part of the team and part of the team's identity. Henry who has no attachment to metrostars get it and wears the red/black arm band. so why cant the support groups understand this? why cant they accept both names?

 

in the end, folks need to respect that past.  All the groups need to accept that RBNY is the official name but the knickname is also metros.  



#33
onionsack

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Anyway, back tot topic at hand.

 

I showed you all a year or so ago how the hell to create a unified section, get money from the franchise, secure rights and privillages, etc. and how to maintain a profitable unified supporters "South Ward" while still maintaining some autonomy as individual groups.

 

I found that most leaders of these groups, while stating they want to work together, really at the end of the day want to do so but on on their own terms and often can't or won't conrol forces within their own group taking a more defiant position as to singing or doing ertain things from other groups.

 

Its fucking sad too. Because when I watch the Timbers Army and see what a "real supporters organization" should look like and then I see what has developed here since 2010 I don't know whether to laugh or fucking cry. Its straight canibalization and triabalism and Red Bull is also to blame for creating the schism.


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#34
The Metrologist

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 We like to pretend that these teams arose from community athletic clubs, when in reality they are all franchises of major corporations. 

 

No, we don't. And no, they aren't.


No one makes TV commercials to get people to look at their billboards.

#35
ESCDetroit

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Will never happen and I don't think it should.


These views do not represent ESC as a whole, just some jerkoff from Detroit.

#36
HarlemKnight

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Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

 

I showed you all a year or so ago how the hell to create a unified section, get money from the franchise, secure rights and privileges, etc. and how to maintain a profitable unified supporters "South Ward" while still maintaining some autonomy as individual groups.

 

I found that most leaders of these groups, while stating they want to work together, really at the end of the day want to do so but on their own terms and often can't or won't control forces within their own group taking a more defiant position as to singing or doing certain things from other groups.

 

Its fucking sad too. Because when I watch the Timbers Army and see what a "real supporters organization" should look like and then I see what has developed here since 2010 I don't know whether to laugh or fucking cry. Its straight cannibalization and tribalism and Red Bull is also to blame for creating the schism.

 

 

Look, know you hate Red Bull and all that it stands. Trust me, I get it.
 
And I also remember you giving step-by-step instructions on how to get it done, only to have it generally ignored.
 
But, unless you have deep pockets or know of a sugar daddy that can come in and give Red Bull GMBH an offer they cannot possibly refuse, thus buying the franchise and renaming it yet a THIRD time... Let me splash a dose of ice-cold reality to you and everyone else... They are not going anywhere! Period. They have too much time and money invested in this team to just say "fuck it" and walk away. Trust me, I've done some checking around just for the hell of it.
 
So, the way I see it, the best thing for all parties to do is get together create something that is exciting and unique DESPITE the brand! What could be better? This is something that the group can genuinely own and be that "real supporters group" for all to envy. Something that ANYONE would want to be a part of.
 
Can we all at least agree to this?

In aliquo puncto, vos have ut decernere si vos es a fan verum Morbi fan ut vere aut vult Morbi ludis.


#37
The Metrologist

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They are not going anywhere! Period. They have too much time and money invested in this team to just say "fuck it" and walk away.

Phil Anschutz has invested far more time and money in this league and its teams than the Austrians (he's even shown up at games! Imagine.) and yet even he has reached his moment where he says "fuck it" and walks away.

RB will do the same at some point. They all do.


No one makes TV commercials to get people to look at their billboards.

#38
T.M. Anthony

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I get the feeling we're entering  :deadhorse:  territory with the red bull thing again.

 

As an outsider its interesting that the groups have that much differences amongst each other.

 

I feel like a unified support (or at the very least chants) would bolster the south wards efforts, but then again it goes over my head and I'm not in charge.

 

the identity crisis really shouldn't mater that much, I'd hope it was differences in management that keeps the ward apart. We root for the red bulls, often called metro. thats about as complicated as it should get.

 

maybe renaming the club Metro NY would help? same logo and all just that added reference to location and past? it just seems like a really lame formality.


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#39
The Metrologist

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maybe renaming the club Metro NY would help? same logo and all just that added reference to location and past? it just seems like a really lame formality.

 

Far from a lame formality, it's both essential if you want to unify things, and absolutely impossible as long as the current ownership stands. There's your rock and hard place.


No one makes TV commercials to get people to look at their billboards.

#40
Savarese17

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I've been a Metro fan all my life and I always told myself when I had the time, when I was old enough, I was gonna join up. But seeing the petty in-fighting, I'd rather be silent in 201 or in the back rows of a mostly-empty 133 watching the half-hearted chanting where people are singing over each other, the weak tifo, and general cluelessness. And just wait until something eventually happens.

 

You're all clowns.



#41
ElTriMetro

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I don't think anyone is "openly antagonistic" of the old guard Metro fans, at least not at the matches.  Here, maybe.  I know that I personally just sing and drink beer for the game 99% of the time.  The only time I get pissed off is when people try to push me out of where I was standing and demanding their ticketed seat, or if someone decides to trash my Metro shirt "Wrong colors, wrong team" and equivalent comments.

 

I will fully admit that I will flip a shit on some one for doing that, and did to some guy last year for making a snide comment when I started a Metro chant.  It's that last part that is one of the biggest hindrances to the SW being unified.  We as a fan base are not unified. and will continue to be fractured so long as Red Bull is the owner.

 

Edit: and I agree on the ego part..but I think the ESC leadership did a wonderful job reaching out over the years...seems like theres resistance from others within the groups tho, not leadership.  Just my opinion.

 

Bingo.  



"Red Bull on the pitch - Metro in our hearts."

 

#RedBullOut

 

 


#42
32panels

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Why is this in the Beat the Dead Horse forum?  If it isn't discussed, nothing will ever change.  I totally get that some want to call the team Metro, and other want to call it Red Bulls.  Some want to wear old Metro jerseys, some want to wear RB jerseys.

 

Frankly, none of this matters as much as is being made out of it.  Yes Red Bull changed the name of the team, but Red Bull didn't cause the schism in the supporters groups, that was the collective doing of the groups.

 

In the article on Colorado, some of that happened there as well, with groups arguing and fighting with one another.  This isn't the Middle East though, there is room for compromise if the leaders of the groups can just get together, put their egos a bit to the side, hash out their differences and see the bigger picture.  A unified South Ward doesn't have to call the team Metro, or Red Bulls, and doesn't have to push any kind of change on what people want to wear to the game, and how people identify themselves.  There is room for all of that to be done under one umbrella.  There is even room to recognize the history and perspectives of all the different groups -- and I'm not just talking about the three main ones.

 

The important part is that the sum of the parts can be greater than the whole -- and can get us closer to the championship we all want by providing louder, more organized and more vociferous support for the team on the field, regardless of the name.  I have been a member of ESC, now a member of VA, admittedly not very active in either organization or not very long in either organization, but I can see the forest for the trees, that we'd be more effective as one and could look a lot more like the Timbers Army, for example.  It is possible, we just need the leaders to be bold and compromise, working out each difference one at a time.

 

We don't have to all hang out at the same bars, or even live in the same parts of the city, or even in the same states.  None of that is tremendously important.  What is important is the unified support that we could be giving for this team.  Unions are never easy; but we have more in common with each other than we have differences.  We all fanatically support the smallest, most ignored franchise in the NYC-metro area because we love to do it, against all pressure.

 

Look, if the Red Bulls could get over themselves enough to appoint Mike Petke as head coach, who represents pieces of all the things that everyone loves, why can't we get over ourselves to support him and his team 100% in a unified manner?



#43
11Redknapp15

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  It went south when the Honey Comb Hideout was formed. 


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#44
onionsack

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  Yes Red Bull changed the name of the team, but Red Bull didn't cause the schism in the supporters groups, that was the collective doing of the groups.

 

Respectfully disagree. It didn't start out that way at first, initially ESC resisted anything Red Bull in songs or banners and the FO didn't push the issue. The eventually came to respect the club was who it was and their ideals even though they wanted us to embrace Red Bull and that brand. Slowly over time though the started to push their brand over Metro and it got to a point they would only have security at Giants allow us to drop Red Bull banners over the mezz and wouldn't let us unfurl the Metro banner.

 

Eventually they started empowering factions that wanted to "be 100% about Red Bull and anti-Metro" and offered them an equal seat at the table in dealing with the club on supporters issues. It even got to a point where they seemed to encourage a divergence because they wanted a pure Red Bulls fan support section and a separation from Metro.

 

Hell, i remember sitting in on a supporters meeting with Dan and Rich in 2009 and watching a group I essentially signed off on to allow to be recognized as a SG by the FO at one time openly claim they were the only "true Red Bull's supporters club" and how they would be all about the team Red Bull while ESC was to nuetral or pro-Metro to be real Red Bulls supporters.

 

Viking Army came about because the Red Bull FO was all about giving deals to anyone that wanted to be a ultra pure pro red bull group instead of dealing with crusty old ESC and their less that fervent support for the "brand". So when a couple new guys to ESC in 2010 decided to take the bait Red Bull was more than willing to give them what they wanted.

 

So yeah, Red Bull created the schism, at the very least they encouraged it. Now we have two major groups, a third minor group and each of them couldn't be more different. They all claim to want this to be unified, but then they want to do things on their terms. 

 

I've seen so many quality people and supporters willing to try to make a difference walk away is such disgust they don't even want to deal with it anymore. Its a fucking mess on the whole...sure on individual group ranks within those groups things run pretty good...but forget about trying to get this together until each club decides to share membership, ticket and tifo revenues and agree to have joint leadership of the South Ward and the decisions.


RED BULL OUT!!! - True Soccer fans in NY since 2006

#45
NittanyMetros

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Agreed..but this is so frustrating already.  I've been a fan of this franchise since the beginning.  As a Metro fan, I HATED going to games at the Medowlands.  Let's face it...it SUCKED there.  Let's be honest about it.  10k people in that place made it feel like you were at a high school game.  Metro folded.  I love the Metro name and team, but guess what folks, Metro isn't the team name anymore.  There should be no arguement over what to call the team.  We are now RBNY.  Period.  End of story.  We all love the new arena right?  Do you think we would have had that with the old ownership group...probably not.  Do you think a guy like Henry would have come to play for Metro in the Medowlands...probably not.  Speaking only for myself, I have no problem supporting RED BULL NEW YORK.  That's who our team is.

We had no problem gettting big names to play for us in the Meadowlands.  So spare me the bullshit.  

 

And yes, we would've had a stadium with AEG as an owner.  They only went out and built the HDC and BBVA Stadium for their two other franchises.  Maybe it would've even had a touch of club history on the premises too.

 

And Metro never, ever folded.  So again, cut the bullshit.

 

Thierry has a Red and Black captains armband for a reason. 


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