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The never-ending Veron discussion


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#436
RedBullScouse

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Fair.  How much worse is our defense going to be with Veron on the wing and BWP up top though?  Will teams drop 4 goals on us?  I get he doesn't track back the way Muyl would, but he does a decent job of pressing high up the pitch, better than he's given credit for.

 

And even though his finishing isn't at the rate we'd all like, he just gets to balls no one else will.  There are some opportunities that he may bungle, but a lot of them are opportunities that no one else on the team would even get a crack at because they don't have his pace.

I don't like Veron on the wing independant of defense.  He's too much of a heads down guy, and doesn't see the cross or trailing runners well.  


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#437
Grelladinho

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Veron must be starting every game

#438
Sasa Curcic's Watch

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He's always effective off the bench. Seems to be best in a 30 minute role. He's never convinced from the start and has been most productive off the bench. 



#439
ElTriMetro

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At this moment in time there is ZERO, ZERO reason that this man doesn't start. 



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#440
Brian.MLS

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You know what, Gonzalo? You've grown on me. Wish you would pick your head up more often, but... good on you, Gonzalo.


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#441
arisrules

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Reminds me a lot of Sergio Galvan Rey.

Superficially, yes. In reality? I don't think there is much of a comparison at all. When Veron signed, Curtis/Marsch explicitly stated that the guy was a bit more of a project. It's also clear he was signed with the hope of playing the 4-2-2-2 (which never came to fruition for a variety of reasons; but it showed poor scouting skills as Veron never really fit well into the 4-2-3-1 of 2015 and 2016, but he's a more natural fit up top as he's shown in Open Cup and CCL action, but also on the wing in the current formations where he can line up higher up). SGR at the time was supposed to be the out and out striker and goal scorer who would elevate the Bob teams. He ended up being a project that Bob had to aggressively whip into shape to try to get anything out of him.  And Bob gave him a lot of chances to do that; SGR played almost 1000 minutes in his first year, and 1600 minutes his second year. He scored some goals, but SGR never really left much of  a mark. 

 

Veron over 3 partial seasons played about 1500 minutes. I know he's had a lot of injuries and had issues fitting into the old 4-2-3-1, but he's never really been given a long run out there to see what he can give the team. Which is fine. I don't think Marsch ever really understood what he had on his hands, and Marsch had a very specific look he wanted from the left wing in that old lineup. But right now Veron is arguably our most in-form player and needs to be accommodated into the lineup somehow. 



#442
NittanyMetros

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Agree in that case with Muyl but now Royer is back so Muyl isn't really a factor.  Then it really only comes down to whether or not Davis should come off. And Davis I actually think is pretty good. 

 

I keep coming back to the idea that the only way we could play 2 strikers up top and not have Sacha be a boat anchor is to move him back to one of the 6's and play the 4-2-2-2. I hated that formation but the way guys look right now, it might work for us.

Veron has done well in the limited time paired with BWP.  We can't stop leaking goals, so might as well attack from the get go in a 4-3-3 with Royer, BWP and Veron up top.


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#443
McSoccer

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Veron has done well in the limited time paired with BWP.  We can't stop leaking goals, so might as well attack from the get go in a 4-3-3 with Royer, BWP and Veron up top.

At this point Marsch should at least try it. Go balls to the wall with the offense and see what happens.

#444
arisrules

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Veron has done well in the limited time paired with BWP.  We can't stop leaking goals, so might as well attack from the get go in a 4-3-3 with Royer, BWP and Veron up top.

Just one caveat. Veron has been either flaring left on a more higher up wing position, or been up top with BWP dropping farther back.  I was actually thinking about the 4-3-3 with this team recently, and that it frankly could be a good look for us. It could be something like this:

 

------Veron-----------BWP---------------Royer

---------Felipe-------Sacha-------------Adams

Kemar--------Long---------Colin------------Murillo--

-------------------------Robles------------------------------

 

Davis would be able to slot into one of those midfield positions as depth. For me it makes sense because Veron would be good in that higher wing position in the 4-3-3, same with Royer. Muyl and Etienne would be depth players on the wings. Keita could deputize Sacha. The other reason this is good is that it creates a lot of natural width, and allows our midfield space to operate. Additionally, Adams range and athleticism gives us a lot of dynamism there. Problem is unless they've been using this in training, I personally don't think going this route this late in the season is worth it. But it's something that Marsch should look at. 



#445
uptownbull

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Gimme Davis Felipe Adams, bringing SK's wiley old legs in at 65th minute to unlock a stingy defense. 

 

Davis is putting together a nice season, let him keep building on it.



#446
ivo

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Gimme Davis Felipe Adams, bringing SK's wiley old legs in at 65th minute to unlock a stingy defense. 

 

Davis is putting together a nice season, let him keep building on it.

I would love to see that but there's no way Marsch tries that in games that we're trying to win (as opposed to vs Philly where he was resting people for the cup final).

 

We'll keep riding the Sacha train and hoping against hope that defense improves.



#447
uptownbull

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Ah right, Marschbot doesn't bend that way. This team must be so easy to prepare for at this point. Almost as easy as solving an attack without real wingers.



#448
Borats

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He's always effective off the bench. Seems to be best in a 30 minute role. He's never convinced from the start and has been most productive off the bench. 

Started last game and was directly involved in both goals (scored one himself and drew PK). Let's stop with ridiculous arguments that a player can only be productive off the bench. He and Adams are the best players on the team right now - period. They actually create chances and need to play every single minute of every game for us to have even a slightest chance for a play-off run.



#449
Captain Koolaid

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Started last game and was directly involved in both goals (scored one himself and drew PK). Let's stop with ridiculous arguments that a player can only be productive off the bench. He and Adams are the best players on the team right now - period. They actually create chances and need to play every single minute of every game for us to have even a slightest chance for a play-off run.

Even though I agree he should start, we need to play better defense to have even the slightest chance for a play-off run.




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#450
Borats

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Even though I agree he should start, we need to play better defense to have even the slightest chance for a play-off run.

I agree there. Is Collin coming back this year? If not, we may need a miracle in addition to Gonzalo and Bradley finally starting together. 

 

Btw, how moronic was exposing Duvall to MLS expansion draft? I was livid at that time. The guy played at all star level in the second half of 2016 after finally recovering from his injuries and was 25. Sure enough he was taken top two and is now playing great, while we have Murillo, Zizzo, and Escobar. Good stuff. Losing Dax at defensive mid did not help either. Here is an idea - if we are trading NT type of player in Dax, just lost Duvall to draft, why not trade him for a good defender instead of nothing at all? Too much to ask? Or better yet - keep both of them and not have a problem in the first place!






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