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The never-ending Veron discussion


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#181
jerzyiroc

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Not sure why people think he's constantly hurt. He got hurt last year at the start of the season then got a slight knock now. Other than his knee surgery back in like 2013 he's never had a history of injuries. Seems like that can be said for a lot of players in the last two years though. I guess it's just a part of the "system" and how they play/practice because I have never seen the amount of hamstring injuries by such a wide amount of players, players who previously never had hamstring injuries, ever. That hamstring hat trick last season against Houston was unreal. Leipzig and Salzburg deals with the same problem btw.

But back to Veron. Putting all the personal opinions aisde here and looking at this strictly from an ability and tactical perspective, for me, the Veron "situation" comes down to this. He's not a fit in the 4231 that RBNY plays. He was a relatively traditional winger at Sporting Italiano but at San Lorenzo his role changed quite a bit. When he was at San Lorenzo he was very much a roaming striker/winger in their multitude of formations they'd play. Depending on who they were playing, they would use a 4132, 4312, 4231, and once in a blue a 433, with Veron up top. But those formations were very fluid. Hell their 4132 would often look like our 4222 since Davis plays a bit higher and Sacha plays a bit centrally despite him being a "winger" in the 4222. This is ultimately why Veron was brought in here. If you remember, both Jesse and Ali were very vocal about him being a signing for 2016, which was supposed to be the year of the 4222.

But the bigger thing here is that Veron is a great fit for the 4222. He's already used to that role. The problem is when they abandoned that last year and went back to the 4231, he was kind of left as the odd man out. Especially since the entire preseason was spent on the 4222 and was his only real source of game minutes for tactical learning experience, not with the 4231. That's why as the season progressed you saw him slot in more as a lone striker and the occasional times they'd use the 4222 later in the year. It's also why people would always complain about him being "out of position" when he was in the 4231. Because being a straight winger isn't something he's had to do in a few years but above that here he's burdened with defensive responsibilities that he's never really had to have. From comments that Jesse's made it seems like getting him to understand the tactics comes down to his defensive abilities more than his attacking side. He'll never be a golden boot winner. He's never been a big super sharp finisher, but in this formation and system he doesn't have to be. His ability to pull defenders away from the primary striker, to create space, play 1v1, his pace, his runs, his vision and crosses (when sharp) is very good. I know most people despise the Leipzig and Salzburg connection. But if you watch those teams enough it can start to clear up on what Veron's role *could* be on this roster. It sucks that a year and a half later from his transfer here, we're still debating where or even if he fits here. But last year was a wash and a waste given the shitty circumstances in many ways. This might be his year, but with Gulbrandsen, who knows. At the very least he's very solid depth to have for rotation since it's clear that the 4-2-2-2 is the primary formation going forward. 



#182
iced1776

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I'm at the point where I'm not even sure its a matter of formation, I'm just not sure Veron's skill set is best suited for a team that plays like we do. He reminds of of David Accam, always looks best when the game is open and he has a lot of space to carry the ball and take on defenders. In a counter attacking system in MLS I think he'd thrive. Unfortunately that's pretty much the antithesis of Marsch's game plan, he tries to compress the field as much as possible and relies on quick, direct passing towards goal.



#183
uptownbull

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What's up with Veron? Interested to see what he could do in Sachas spot working with Royer BWP and FG.

#184
Eleazar

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still got that hammy, iirc. 


RIP Guillermo Romulo, Alexander Francis Orig and Celenio Eleazar.

 

RIP Cesar Castello and Mike Vallo

 

"Metro..."

 


#185
arisrules

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What's up with Veron? Interested to see what he could do in Sachas spot working with Royer BWP and FG.

he's a forward. Can Marsch stop trying to play him in the midfield? 

 

Unfortunately dude is made of glass and it will take a while for him to find his form. Sucks. 



#186
Komba

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he's a forward. Can Marsch stop trying to play him in the midfield? 

 

Unfortunately dude is made of glass and it will take a while for him to find his form. Sucks. 

Agree.. But Marsch has been good about playing him up top.  Some fans seem to want to see more of him in midfield and I don't get it.  He did look competent at times up top, but he never looked good in the midfield. 

 

In my experience, hamstring injuries are always around a month, outside of the severe ones.  You try to come back early, you get hurt again and usually worse.  What sucks, is even being out a month, usually it takes a bit to work back up to optimal play too.  And Veron already isn't good enough to not be at his best physically.



#187
McSoccer

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he's a forward. Can Marsch stop trying to play him in the midfield? 

 

Unfortunately dude is made of glass and it will take a while for him to find his form. Sucks. 

 

 

Agree.. But Marsch has been good about playing him up top.  Some fans seem to want to see more of him in midfield and I don't get it.  He did look competent at times up top, but he never looked good in the midfield. 

 

In my experience, hamstring injuries are always around a month, outside of the severe ones.  You try to come back early, you get hurt again and usually worse.  What sucks, is even being out a month, usually it takes a bit to work back up to optimal play too.  And Veron already isn't good enough to not be at his best physically.

Vernon's injury status aside, he was our most effective winger in the playoffs.  Way more effective than either Grella or Muyl.  So yea, is he more of a forward than a winger?  Sure, but if we are reverting to the 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3, he can play the wing if he's healthy.  The other wing option is Gulfbrandsen, but he is also more of a forward.

 

Or I guess we could go back to what's worked in the regular season (Grella, Muyl) and then enjoy some late autumn free time when we get knocked out of the playoffs early again.



#188
Komba

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Vernon's injury status aside, he was our most effective winger in the playoffs.  Way more effective than either Grella or Muyl.  So yea, is he more of a forward than a winger?  Sure, but if we are reverting to the 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3, he can play the wing if he's healthy.  The other wing option is Gulfbrandsen, but he is also more of a forward.

 

Or I guess we could go back to what's worked in the regular season (Grella, Muyl) and then enjoy some late autumn free time when we get knocked out of the playoffs early again.

 

You say playoffs like it includes a ton of minutes... Veron has also played the wing plenty in the regular season and never done enough to be in discussion for being our best winger. 

 

I've seen enough of Veron now to know that he's best up top.  And also in general he's not worth having on the team considering everything, specifically injuries. The guy isn't always completely useless out there, but it's not worth having him considering the salary cap implications.

 

Grella and Muyl may not the answers, but Veron damn well isn't an answer either.



#189
McSoccer

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You say playoffs like it includes a ton of minutes... Veron has also played the wing plenty in the regular season and never done enough to be in discussion for being our best winger. 
 
I've seen enough of Veron now to know that he's best up top.  And also in general he's not worth having on the team considering everything, specifically injuries. The guy isn't always completely useless out there, but it's not worth having him considering the salary cap implications.
 
Grella and Muyl may not the answers, but Veron damn well isn't an answer either.

Grella has had a ton of minutes in the playoffs (I think it's 6 games, 5 starts) and has the same playoff goal, assist, and chance creation numbers as I do.

Veron may be better up top, but he's also better, at least in the playoffs, than Grella and Muyl on the wing.

The Norseman may be our answer on the wing, but if he's not then I think you have to give Veron a shot there.

#190
arisrules

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Grella has had a ton of minutes in the playoffs (I think it's 6 games, 5 starts) and has the same playoff goal, assist, and chance creation numbers as I do.

Veron may be better up top, but he's also better, at least in the playoffs, than Grella and Muyl on the wing.

The Norseman may be our answer on the wing, but if he's not then I think you have to give Veron a shot there.

jerzyiroc above basically confirmed my observations on Veron from the past two years (I've never watched him before he joined this team). I also think he is a better option than either as well, but I also do not think he is an ideal pure winger or fit in the 4-2-3-1. However, he is very well suited to playing the lone striker up top in the 4-2-3-1, as he carves up space and makes a lot of hard runs, which allows the midfielders gaps to exploit.  

 

As an aside, have any journalists asked RBNY about their training regime and the series of hamstring injuries? The fact this is still going on is a bit concerning. 



#191
Koko

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Veron is a player for the future that they bought way too early. He should have been purchased today or even later to groom into Sasha or BWPs role.

Instead of Veron they should have been looking for a DP center back in his prime.

#192
iced1776

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Veron is a player for the future that they bought way too early. He should have been purchased today or even later to groom into Sasha or BWPs role.

Instead of Veron they should have been looking for a DP center back in his prime.

 

When they started scouting Veron there was pretty good reason to think we needed help in attack, Grella had only just become Mr. 10,000 and nobody figured he'd break out to be as good as he was for the next 12 months.

 

Nowadays though, that DP center back is looking pretty good...



#193
Koko

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When they started scouting Veron there was pretty good reason to think we needed help in attack, Grella had only just become Mr. 10,000 and nobody figured he'd break out to be as good as he was for the next 12 months.
 
Nowadays though, that DP center back is looking pretty good...


Except Veron isn't a winger and neither is Grella. And they've both been forced to play out there. Granted Grella adapted far better than anyone could have possible predicted but if they wanted more weapons outside they should have bought some weapons for the outside!

#194
iced1776

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Except Veron isn't a winger and neither is Grella. And they've both been forced to play out there. Granted Grella adapted far better than anyone could have possible predicted but if they wanted more weapons outside they should have bought some weapons for the outside!

 

Didn't he play out wide fairly often for San Lorenzo? I thought I remember the scouting reports saying he's played both winger and supporting striker when he joined us but I didn't follow a second of his career in Argentina.



#195
Antonius Block

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Veron is a player for the future that they bought way too early. He should have been purchased today or even later to groom into Sasha or BWPs role.

Instead of Veron they should have been looking for a DP center back in his prime.

Veron is 27 years old.  He is at or approaching the age where players begin to decline.  Veron is just not that good and never has been.  Looking at these players Atlanta brought in just goes to show that it has nothing to do with his age or his time to adapt.  His lack of production has to do with the fact that he simply is not very good.  But hey, he can run fast like Khano Smith.






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