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Some people are smart; others are not


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#1
McSoccer

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You can get an education (or not) at any age. You can only be a 20 year old pro athlete once tho.

Not necessarily from Stanford. Dont get me wrong, Im glad these kids are signing pro contracts - their games are going to develop much better here than at college. Im just saying, passing on a top five academic school is a tough call.

#2
RedBullScouse

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Not necessarily from Stanford. Dont get me wrong, Im glad these kids are signing pro contracts - their games are going to develop much better here than at college. Im just saying, passing on a top five academic school is a tough call.

Stamford's not turning him away after this is all done, if that's what he wants.  Maybe no $, but that's a different conversation


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#3
JBigjake54

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Stamford's not turning him away after this ... Maybe no $, but that's a different conversation


Actually, that is EXACTLY the conversation. He will not have NCAA eligibility and will not have an athletic scholarship currently valued at $250K.
Who even knows if he would qualify academically?
https://www.stanford...o-4-65-percent/
http://www.collegesi...sity/admission/

We are good enough to beat the best teams, and bad enough to lose to the worst teams. 


#4
RedBullScouse

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Actually, that is EXACTLY the conversation. He will not have NCAA eligibility and will not have an athletic scholarship currently valued at $250K.
Who even knows if he would qualify academically?
https://www.stanford...o-4-65-percent/
http://www.collegesi...sity/admission/

At Stamford, athletes explicitly do not get a waiver on academic requirements or preferred treatment in admissions.  We all know that's BS, but they would be caught out on the BS if they were to accept him as an athlete then reject him as a non-athlete.    Yes, he will lose the scholarship, but he's earning a paycheck here to make up for that.


"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." - Iron Mike

 

Bitch covered my plaid?
The sorrow inside me grows.
I need my plaid pitch.

"It goes without saying that when things don't go your way they just don't go your way. " - JCO

"He can't kick with his left foot, he can't tackle, he can't head the ball and he doesn't score many goals. Apart from that, he's all right.”
George Best, on David Beckham


#5
McSoccer

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At Stamford, athletes explicitly do not get a waiver on academic requirements or preferred treatment in admissions.  We all know that's BS, but they would be caught out on the BS if they were to accept him as an athlete then reject him as a non-athlete.    Yes, he will lose the scholarship, but he's earning a paycheck here to make up for that.

I was just assuming there was a limit on how many years a student can defer enrollment.

 

Anyway, really glad he's here and I hope he has a long, successful pro career, making any concern about his college choice moot.



#6
JBigjake54

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At Stamford, athletes explicitly do not get a waiver on academic requirements or preferred treatment in admissions.  We all know that's BS, but they would be caught out on the BS if they were to accept him as an athlete then reject him as a non-athlete. 


Since you posted no links, allow me to do so:
https://www.stanford...cs-at-stanford/
https://www.theplaye...-in-600-billion
It is arguable that the average Scholarship Athlete at Stanford scores 200 to 390 points less on the SAT than the average accepted non-SA, non-minority, non-legacy student. 1,200 compared with 1590.
Of course, if you can post a link that shows Ben was valedictorian or salutatorian at his high school, I will reconsider.

Yes, he will lose the scholarship, but he's earning a paycheck here to make up for that.


That will have to be some paycheck, to net an extra $250K to replace the athletic free ride.

We are good enough to beat the best teams, and bad enough to lose to the worst teams. 


#7
Voice of Reason II

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Everything is negotiable. Stanford can choose to take a student at any age. Universities want a diverse student body. I have been involved with the Posse Group's efforts to bring veterans into the undergraduate programs at top colleges. They are older, often have wives and children and don't fit the typical freshman profile.

 

If Ben is smart enough to get on Stanford's radar, then his smarts and his obvious accomplishments in "real life" will give him access to many fine institutions when he so chooses.

 

He is pursuing his current dream and I am sure he will have the wherewithal to pursue the next stage when ready. 



#8
JBigjake54

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Everything is negotiable.

Not D1 eligibility:
https://www.athletic...-college-sports

Stanford can choose to take a student at any age. Universities want a diverse student body. I have been involved with the Posse Group's efforts to bring veterans into the undergraduate programs at top colleges. They are older, often have wives and children and don't fit the typical freshman profile.

What special gifts does Ben bring to higher education, other than his soccer skills?

If Ben is smart enough to get on Stanford's radar, then his smarts and his obvious accomplishments in "real life" will give him access to many fine institutions when he so chooses.

Regarding smarts, has anyone determined his particular brilliance academically in high school? Obvious accomplishments? Enlighten us!

He is pursuing his current dream and I am sure he will have the wherewithal to pursue the next stage when ready. 


Substitute hope for am sure, and I will agree with you.

We are good enough to beat the best teams, and bad enough to lose to the worst teams. 


#9
Voice of Reason II

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Not D1 eligibility:
https://www.athletic...-college-sports
What special gifts does Ben bring to higher education, other than his soccer skills?
Regarding smarts, has anyone determined his particular brilliance academically in high school? Obvious accomplishments? Enlighten us!

Substitute hope for am sure, and I will agree with you.

I served as advisor for 15 years to two presidents of my top 50 alma mater. I was intimate with all aspects of the college: academics, administration, faculty tenure, labor relations, strategic planning, activities (including sports), financing, etc, and of course admissions. I can assure you to the best of my knowledge that schools at the Ivy level like Stanford do not offer scholarships to athletes unqualified academically. That doesn't mean he is Einstein level, but the kid is smart. Many top schools would be happy to have him as a student. He has shown the kind of qualities that admissions directors pine for.

 

2nd, I never said he would be able to play sports now that he has gone pro. He has foregone the opportunity for a sports scholarship and couldn't play for their or another school's NCAA program. But that does not mean he couldn't go to study there. If he is fortunate to have a long soccer career who knows what he will want to do at age 30+ academically and whether or not Stanford would appeal to him at that point, but he would be welcomed at many great schools. Negotiable meant that a school like Stanford can defer him for 15 years if they want. There is no government regulation preventing that.

 

3rd. The primary credential that all applicants to top schools offer is their academic capability and accounts for 90%+ of the admission decision. All the top schools get more academically qualified applicants than they have room for. The other stuff helps them choose among that over sized pool. Making a pro roster at age 17 implies a boat load of great character qualities from hard work and perseverance to maturity and leadership that schools cherish.

 

He had a big life choice and he chose to forgo a free ride at a top 5 college to play for us. I would admit someone like that even at 32+ in a heartbeat.

 

The kid is impressive. I am proud to have him as an RBNY player. I am not sure why you are showing such animosity towards him, but whatever...



#10
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Let's be honest, he is not going to Stanford after he retires - he'll be joining Omar Gonzalez and Tim Howard at Southern New Hampshire University. 



#11
Voice of Reason II

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Let's be honest, he is not going to Stanford after he retires - he'll be joining Omar Gonzalez and Tim Howard at Southern New Hampshire University. 

Such jealousy on these boards today.  :(



#12
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It was a reference to the TV commercials with Gonzo and Timmy thanks to the ongoing MLS partnership with the school

#13
McSoccer

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I served as advisor for 15 years to two presidents of my top 50 alma mater. I was intimate with all aspects of the college: academics, administration, faculty tenure, labor relations, strategic planning, activities (including sports), financing, etc, and of course admissions. I can assure you to the best of my knowledge that schools at the Ivy level like Stanford do not offer scholarships to athletes unqualified academically. That doesn't mean he is Einstein level, but the kid is smart. Many top schools would be happy to have him as a student. He has shown the kind of qualities that admissions directors pine for.
 
2nd, I never said he would be able to play sports now that he has gone pro. He has foregone the opportunity for a sports scholarship and couldn't play for their or another school's NCAA program. But that does not mean he couldn't go to study there. If he is fortunate to have a long soccer career who knows what he will want to do at age 30+ academically and whether or not Stanford would appeal to him at that point, but he would be welcomed at many great schools. Negotiable meant that a school like Stanford can defer him for 15 years if they want. There is no government regulation preventing that.
 
3rd. The primary credential that all applicants to top schools offer is their academic capability and accounts for 90%+ of the admission decision. All the top schools get more academically qualified applicants than they have room for. The other stuff helps them choose among that over sized pool. Making a pro roster at age 17 implies a boat load of great character qualities from hard work and perseverance to maturity and leadership that schools cherish.

Im sure you went to a great school, but unless it was Stanford or equivalent (Stanford is ranked on par with the top Ivys and better better than most of them) your experience may not apply.

You are correct in that Ben has to smart to get into Stanford, but, even at elite academic schools, if you look at the SAT averages of athletes it is noyicable lower than the average of the general population. You need mid-1500 SAT score to even consider Standford if you are not playing a sport. I have know idea what Mines test scores are, maybe hes the guy that could get into a Standford for athletics and academia.

#14
Voice of Reason II

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It was a reference to the TV commercials with Gonzo and Timmy thanks to the ongoing MLS partnership with the school

Haha, ok.



#15
Voice of Reason II

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Im sure you went to a great school, but unless it was Stanford or equivalent (Stanford is ranked on par with the top Ivys and better better than most of them) your experience may not apply.

You are correct in that Ben has to smart to get into Stanford, but, even at elite academic schools, if you look at the SAT averages of athletes it is noyicable lower than the average of the general population. You need mid-1500 SAT score to even consider Standford if you are not playing a sport. I have know idea what Mines test scores are, maybe hes the guy that could get into a Standford for athletics and academia.

The original genesis of this thread is that Mines was making a big sacrifice to forego a full scholarship to Stanford and the original push back is that it wasn't a sacrifice. If he won't be deferred and never granted admission to Stanford or another similar top University then that view corroborates the "he made a big sacrifice" argument.

 

All athletes' grades and board scores are not below average even if a majority are. The stereotype of the low IQ cretin athlete is pretty tired at this point. I have no clue what Ben's SAT's are, but if was able to be offered a place at Stanford, even if he was last in the incoming class he was probably looking smarter than 99+% of the rest of us.






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