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#46
hurricane1091

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Again, people have been antifa in the ESC since day one. Even before Trump. People on these boards are making it be a Trump thing. So if were to put a sign that said "Women's Equality", would that be anti Trump? When SG bring out the rainbow fags is that anti-Trump? The fact that the group has been founded on these this is now considered "against Trump" because of all his stupidity. I don't hate people because of who they voted for I hate people who try to silence others on something we actually should all be agreeing on. We should ALL not want fascist in this world. We should all want civil rights in this world but when now YOU equate being for those things as anti Trump then who is the problem? Whos the ones adding 2+2 and perpetuating the agenda?

 

You know what everyones response to that scarf should be if you really thought Trump wasnt a fascist? "Yeah me too, hopefully Trump can get rid of those fascist"

My very first post in this thread I said I dislike fascism. I am totally okay with ESC's standpoint on the issue if it is unrelated to the current political scene in this country. I did piece 1 and 1 together, you're right. But am I wrong? Based on some responses in this thread,  I do not think so. Based on what is going on in this country, it's impossible to not assume that this is a political protest against the President, and I am sure you can understand that. Moral stances belong in soccer, not political.



#47
Metro4LIFE

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My very first post in this thread I said I dislike fascism. I am totally okay with ESC's standpoint on the issue if it is unrelated to the current political scene in this country. I did piece 1 and 1 together, you're right. But am I wrong? Based on some responses in this thread,  I do not think so. Based on what is going on in this country, it's impossible to not assume that this is a political protest against the President, and I am sure you can understand that. Moral stances belong in soccer, not political.

In certain instances I dont think you're wrong, but people responded to you because you made the connection. When people in the ESC have been saying this shit for 20 years. At the end of the day did the guy with the scarf really do anything? There were like 300 people in the stadium. I bet more attention was given to it here on these boards than at the stadium or on tv. 


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#48
SatansHockey

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People on these boards are making it be a Trump thing



4 pages arguing saying it wasn't about Trump when we all knew it was. At least these two can admit it...

https://mobile.twitt...570840448569344

https://twitter.com/...614138764742656

#49
NittanyMetros

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I hate fascism. There's none in America that I'm aware of though, which is good. I guess that makes the scarf and movement kind of weird lately, seems like it's out of left field. Maybe some small groups in rural areas, but nothing newsworthy.

 

 

NYCFC are having big time issues with fascists.  To the point where some of their members contacted me about it asking for some assistance in organizing local Antifa.

 

If you're in ESC, you're a member of a group of people that has a noted history of beating the living shit out of fascists and nazi's in the 90's.  You're in an antifa group.


#RedBullOut


#50
cryforburke

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My very first post in this thread I said I dislike fascism. I am totally okay with ESC's standpoint on the issue if it is unrelated to the current political scene in this country. I did piece 1 and 1 together, you're right. But am I wrong? Based on some responses in this thread,  I do not think so. Based on what is going on in this country, it's impossible to not assume that this is a political protest against the President, and I am sure you can understand that. Moral stances belong in soccer, not political.

So showing an active dislike for fascism is only okay when people DON'T suspect the current president of being one?  That makes zero fucking sense.  You can't just al a carte your antifa.  



#51
hurricane1091

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So showing an active dislike for fascism is only okay when people DON'T suspect the current president of being one?  That makes zero fucking sense.  You can't just al a carte your antifa.  

Okay, but you just outlined that there is a difference of opinion, and this now a political thing. Why go there and have this debate, when it is not the correct platform to do so? People pay money to come to a soccer game, to watch said soccer game - not to see what the South Ward thinks about travel bans and the President. I fundamentally believe it is wrong to push political agendas at an event people paid money to come see that is not political in nature. It is equally as wrong for someone to bring a sign saying PROTECT OUR BORDERS. Not at all the place to be doing such a thing. 



#52
Sandman527

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People pay money to come to a soccer game, to watch said soccer game - not to see what the South Ward thinks about travel bans and the President.  


Then fucking watch the game and stop staring at the South Ward.

#53
hurricane1091

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Then fucking watch the game and stop staring at the South Ward.

You missed the point, and it went totally over your head mate. Stop being selfish and hijacking someone else's (the New York Red Bull's) platform for your own agenda, and have some respect others who if they cared about your political views, would go to the correct platform to seek it.



#54
adam22

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4 pages arguing saying it wasn't about Trump when we all knew it was. At least these two can admit it...

https://mobile.twitt...570840448569344

https://twitter.com/...614138764742656

We just gonna ignore this? Proof is right here. It was obvious if you had more than a single brain cell.

I have not seen any anti-fascist posts, shirts, scarves, videos, speeches, etc in last four years online or in 101. Did everyone just forget or slack off?

Laughable. More respect for the two that at least admitted it.

I am not here to debate whether the guy who won the democracy/relublic-based election is a fascist. I'm sticking to my no-politics stance.

#55
Sandman527

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You missed the point, and it went totally over your head mate. Stop being selfish and hijacking someone else's (the New York Red Bull's) platform for your own agenda, and have some respect others who if they cared about your political views, would go to the correct platform to seek it.


The other side of the scarf says "Against Racism" and ESC hangs a pride flag from the perch every game. Are those considered political now because the oversized tangerine ended transgender rights? Get fucked, snowflake. If flags and politics viewpoints hurt you and your enjoyment of soccer, you don't understand what the sport and supporter's culture stands for.

Why don't you go run along and send an email to St. Pauli supporters telling them their stance bothers you and your enjoyment of soccer.

#56
Grelladinho

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The people who keep bringing up this "ESC is already Antifa" stuff are missing the point.

Yes, decades ago the founders worked to keep Nazi and extremist elements out of the section. The complaint here though is that suddenly people are showing up to the stadium with "against facism" scarves and holding up flags of all these different countries to protest Trump. Why is this suddenly a thing for ESC? For years people have come to the games and drank beer and cheered on the team and now the SG decides to take a political turn.

I even saw someone last night unfurl an Antifa flag, pull their ESC scarf up over their face like a ski mask and pose for photos...in the center of the section.

Keeping extremists out of the section is one thing. Showing up and virtue signalling with scarves and other means is another.

From what I've observed, the source of all of this is a mindset that has gotten more and more prevalent following the election. For some people, and this includes ESC members and numerous capos, they appear to be unable to detach their lives from politics. Every extension of their lives has to become some kind of anti-Trump and anti-GOP thing.

They often go on Facebook and Twitter and rant incessantly about it. They can bring it up in conversations out of nowhere. They sometimes attend protests and argue about it on the internet.

They have a right to do these things, but at the extent they do it it becomes more of a behavioral thing where they are stuck in this never-ending cycle of making themselves miserable by allowing their lives to be dominated each day by negative thoughts. Maybe they weren't prepared mentally for Clinton losing. Who knows.

So soccer returns last night and the south ward, like everything else for them, has to become yet another outlet where they can rant about Trump and the GOP. For them it's business as usual. I don't think it has any benefit to them though. Nobody goes to a sporting event to be converted into another political group.

#57
adam22

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The OP indicated that he believed this sort of display would be divisive and further weaken the support for the team. Clearly, he was right. I kept hearing how it is always for the guys on the pitch. When did that focus shift?

It is entirely reasonable for people to have a stance and for ESC to align themselves with them. I do not see the benefit for the guys on the pitch when you publicly display these sort if things in the stands.

Those upset with people calling a spade a spade have moved from saying its not a Trump thing (when several people visually indicated otherwise) to making claims of not wanting to be around Trump voters, to saying get fucked if you don't like their political demonstrations. This sort of thing is a slippery slope and we should stop right now. I fear this is only the beginning.

#58
ElMetrofan

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Love the thread. If people don't think Trump is a fascist; more power to them because the left is just as responsible for alowing it or people staying at home. The thing that bothers me the most is that lot of Americans have used his election platform cry uncle while Americans, Latinos, Muslims, Anglo-Saxons, Asians die everyday just trying to survive thanks to human greed and corruption which didn't just suddenly start with Trump.

#59
atomikb

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I too made the instant and direct correlation to the travel ban.  Just to shed some historical perspective on the matter, the travel ban has its origins in the Obama administration.  President Obama signed the travel restriction law into effect on December 2015.  The law was passed by the Congress and covered Iran, Iraq, Sudan, and Syria.  The restriction meant that if you travelled to any of these countries you had to re-apply for visa to enter or re-enter the USA.  That in itself is something of a harsh measure.  A few months later, President Obama expanded it to include Libya, Somalia, and Yemen.  Six of the seven countries on this list are currently undergoing severe strife (i.e., civil war).  Meaning there is very little on the way of what we would refer to as an organized government.  Iran has an organized government but it is not friendly to US (Death to America and the Great Satan serve as constant reminders).  Oh, and we do not have diplomatic relations with most of these places for one reason or another.  President Trump upped it to a ban.  A ban increases the severity of the situation.  The ban was only to take effect for 120 days.  I can tell you that this is something our Government does in order to assess a situation before taking concrete action.  This is probably a "stand down".  A temporary measure to discuss and assess before a final position is arrived at. 



#60
adam22

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The people who keep bringing up this "ESC is already Antifa" stuff are missing the point.

Yes, decades ago the founders worked to keep Nazi and extremist elements out of the section. The complaint here though is that suddenly people are showing up to the stadium with "against facism" scarves and holding up flags of all these different countries to protest Trump. Why is this suddenly a thing for ESC? For years people have come to the games and drank beer and cheered on the team and now the SG decides to take a political turn.

I even saw someone last night unfurl an Antifa flag, pull their ESC scarf up over their face like a ski mask and pose for photos...in the center of the section.

Keeping extremists out of the section is one thing. Showing up and virtue signalling with scarves and other means is another.

From what I've observed, the source of all of this is a mindset that has gotten more and more prevalent following the election. For some people, and this includes ESC members and numerous capos, they appear to be unable to detach their lives from politics. Every extension of their lives has to become some kind of anti-Trump and anti-GOP thing.

They often go on Facebook and Twitter and rant incessantly about it. They can bring it up in conversations out of nowhere. They sometimes attend protests and argue about it on the internet.

They have a right to do these things, but at the extent they do it it becomes more of a behavioral thing where they are stuck in this never-ending cycle of making themselves miserable by allowing their lives to be dominated each day by negative thoughts. Maybe they weren't prepared mentally for Clinton losing. Who knows.

So soccer returns last night and the south ward, like everything else for them, has to become yet another outlet where they can rant about Trump and the GOP. For them it's business as usual. I don't think it has any benefit to them though. Nobody goes to a sporting event to be converted into another political group.

dhMeAzK.gif?noredirect

 

Well said. Thank you for your input.

 

I understand that ESC is a membership-based group and I'm free to leave at any time. I would like very much not to do so. I would rather get back to leaving our baggage at home. Showing up, drinking a few beers, and celebrating some wins. Why can't we have that? We did it for so long. And if some assholes show up in the section pushing racism or Mussolini himself returns from the grave and shows up, I'll have your back, no questions asked.

 

We need to separate the politics from the morals. It's easy, thankfully.






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