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Vanzeir "incident" vs San Jose


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#46
TK_RBNY

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Getting rid of Vanzeir may be a blessing in disguise as I don't think he's that good at all. Try again with another striker in the summer. 


Im not sure how we can make that judgement with barely any time on the field. Not that it is an important aspect in this whatsoever.

#47
Arsenal14

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Im not sure how we can make that judgement with barely any time on the field. Not that it is an important aspect in this whatsoever.


Recovering from an injury, new team, new country, starts one game, "HE SUCKS."

You'd think people would have learned not to rush to judgment about a player's quality like this by now.

Anyway, if he used a slur, send him straight back to Belgium. No excuse for that.


#48
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Don't contracts these days have some kind of language to address this stuff? Abaemt that and the level of proof it would require, he's not walking away without a payout,and we're not spending any money this year to replace him. Even if we can cut him and get out of his contract, we are still out the xfer fee. I can't see the locker room taking him back (if he did what is being said he did).

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#49
Brian.MLS

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Don't contracts these days have some kind of language to address this stuff? Abaemt that and the level of proof it would require, he's not walking away without a payout,and we're not spending any money this year to replace him. Even if we can cut him and get out of his contract, we are still out the xfer fee. I can't see the locker room taking him back (if he did what is being said he did).


Yes. Most contracts have a clause that states this in the contract termination section. In the past I was very broad 'irrepairable conduct deemed detrimental to the organization and/or league'.
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#50
defendyourself

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Im probably in the minority here but I dont think they should get rid of vanzeir but if proven true should suspend him, fine him, require him to do a racial and minority sensitivity training and make him meet with the MLS black players group to 1) hear from them to learn 2) give him avenues to work with minority communities in areas addressing racial inequality that he must do as part of punishment.

Hes going to get a lot of social shaming at every stadium he plays in (including ours) rest of the season and probably whole career which is deserved and a good thing. He did a racist thing but Id like to maybe prevent him from becoming a racist permanently if possible. Sometimes people from monoculture/mostly white countries dont realize how seriously this should be taken, so hopefully we can be an example and mls comes down hard.

But totally understand everyone that wants him kicked out and terminated. Ending the contract just lets him hide and sign with a team in a country that maybe doesnt take this stuff seriously.



#51
sabremike

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I think they do care about the brand.

Out of curiosity - was it a racial or sexual epithet

And a very simple rule of thumb - a when given a group of possible outcomes, where RBNY is concerned it will inevitably be the worst outcome


If I had to guess given that the press release said it was a racial slur it was a word that rhymes with "Trigger". Last night was the last game he will ever play in MLS.
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#52
MetroFanatic

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Im probably in the minority here but I dont think they should get rid of vanzeir but if proven true should suspend him, fine him, require him to do a racial and minority sensitivity training and make him meet with the MLS black players group to 1) hear from them to learn 2) give him avenues to work with minority communities in areas addressing racial inequality that he must do as part of punishment.

Hes going to get a lot of social shaming at every stadium he plays in (including ours) rest of the season and probably whole career which is deserved and a good thing. He did a racist thing but Id like to maybe prevent him from becoming a racist permanently if possible. Sometimes people from monoculture/mostly white countries dont realize how seriously this should be taken, so hopefully we can be an example and mls comes down hard.

But totally understand everyone that wants him kicked out and terminated. Ending the contract just lets him hide and sign with a team in a country that maybe doesnt take this stuff seriously.
 


I don't really want to defend him, but it really is important to understand that he might not have the basic information about the n-word and its racist history when growing up in Europe. Especially if you listen to rap, where that word is used quite liberally. (As an aside, the CTO of my company just blasted Notorious BIG lyrics with an audible n-word repeated multiple times on an all-hands meeting with 500+ people and had to apologize via email. He is not getting fired.)

 

From my own personal experience, my first language is Russian, and the word for black person is "negr". I came to America, I used that word, and was told not to. I had no idea I was not supposed to not say it. Now, this was 30 years ago, and I was just a kid... but I didn't know not to use it. That being said, the world is a much smaller place now that it was then. Should he know not to use it? Probably. Did he know? Not sure.

 

So, yes, there is the nuclear option where you tear up the contract, but perhaps someone should teach him the history and the hate that word has in it. And maybe that will make him a better person, even if he is not racist.

 

Or maybe he meant it, and is a racist. I hope he isn't, but nobody knows but him.


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#53
ivo

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Im probably in the minority here but I dont think they should get rid of vanzeir but if proven true should suspend him, fine him, require him to do a racial and minority sensitivity training and make him meet with the MLS black players group to 1) hear from them to learn 2) give him avenues to work with minority communities in areas addressing racial inequality that he must do as part of punishment.

[...]
But totally understand everyone that wants him kicked out and terminated. Ending the contract just lets him hide and sign with a team in a country that maybe doesnt take this stuff seriously.

Yeah, obviously the former will be the outcome and not the latter. No team is tearing up a contract on a 5M asset.

We can discuss what should happen or what we want to happen, but if anyone thinks MLS or RB is firing Vanzeir/terminating his contract, they are just naive.

#54
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#55
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https://www.forbes.c...sh=1a8aac6c37a4


Interesting points, thanks

#56
defendyourself

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Yeah, obviously the former will be the outcome and not the latter. No team is tearing up a contract on a 5M asset.

We can discuss what should happen or what we want to happen, but if anyone thinks MLS or RB is firing Vanzeir's contract, they are just naive.


Of course. Ive just read/heard from several ppl that think the right thing is to terminate contract though we know they wont. But I dont think terminating the contract is even the right thing even if we were ok eating the money

#57
elf

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Might try to cancel my season tickets depending on how the team moves here. Struber not immediately removing him is a disgrace and speaks to his fraudulence as a manager and leader of young men. "My boys my boys" is this mediocre coach's smoke and mirrors.


How is it disgrace? What if he didnt say anything? Are you willing to accuse someone of such things with no evidence? That's crazy.

I think jumping to conclusions without any facts is a disgrace and a disservice. The coach did the right thing by not caving into anyones demands. If there was evidence that such action occurred, then cards would have been issued.

Let the folks who conduct an investigation do their jobs.



#58
magicmoron

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How is it disgrace? What if he didnt say anything? Are you willing to accuse someone of such things with no evidence? That's crazy.

I think jumping to conclusions without any facts is a disgrace and a disservice. The coach did the right thing by not caving into anyones demands. If there was evidence that such action occurred, then cards would have been issued.

Let the folks who conduct an investigation do their jobs.
 

EDIT; Nevermind.



#59
elf

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There's quite a lot of evidence.  Nothing conclusive yet, but I am convinced.  Of course we will see what the investigation uncovers, if anything.


So you are very confident that a guy who is has only been in america for a few weeks, unfamiliar with American culture/race history, and speaks another language said something offensive?

Do we know what he said? No.

Was he speaking in dutch? German? Spanish? English? Who knows.

As someone who speaks multiple languages and have travel around the world..Languages can be tricky and certain words can have totally different meanings in other languages/dialects. Google filipino desserts and you would see that certain dessert treats have the name of some vulgar spanish words. Or google german slang for bro or mate... if an American heard that word.. he might think he is hearing the n word.

As of right now, a lot of people are just making assumptions on what was said. Not only is that harmful but also reckless. Let's see what the investigation determines. And if he did what was said punish him.

However, making an assumption on what was said is not right.




#60
magicmoron

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So you are very confident that a guy who is has only been in america for a few weeks, unfamiliar with American culture/race history, and speaks another language said something offensive?

Do we know what he said? No.

Was he speaking in dutch? German? Spanish? English? Who knows.

As someone who speaks multiple languages and have travel around the world..Languages can be tricky and certain words can have totally different meanings in other languages/dialects. Google filipino desserts and you would see that certain dessert treats have the name of some vulgar spanish words. Or google german slang for bro or mate... if an American heard that word.. he might think he is hearing the n word.

As of right now, a lot of people are just making assumptions on what was said. Not only is that harmful but also reckless. Let's see what the investigation determines. And if he did what was said punish him.

However, making an assumption on what was said is not right.


I am not sure how he meant it (obviously) and I think that is important. But whatever he said had a clear reaction and that also has to be taken into account (and Vanzeir needs to be educated on that).




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