Jump to content

Firing a successful head coach


  • Please log in to reply
26 replies to this topic

#16
RedBullScouse

RedBullScouse

    Dir. of Football Operations

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,798 posts
  • Supports:Irresistable Mermaids/Liverpool/RU

Ok, thanks for the condescention. 

To your first part, follow me closely. I'm not sure if you're purposely coming on here being deceitful or you simply don't know any better. But with apologies to Lenny Wilkins, Karl is the winningest coach in Sonics history by victories, winning percentage, every possible metric. He had seasons of 64 wins, 63 wins and that 61-win season that got him fired. And yes, those are not the two best seasons in team history; they're the THREE best seasons in team history, including the move to Oklahoma City. 

 

But maybe you don't watch the NBA. So I'll go to my NFL example. Try to follow it closely. Marty led the Chargers to a 14-2 record after a 9-win campaign the year before. And not only are the 14 wins a team-record, but the 23 wins over a two year span are the best two-year span in Chargers history. That was the metric you wanted, right?

 

Again, I'm not here to tell anybody whether they should or shouldn't be mad about Petke's firing, should or shouldn't protest, or jump ship to  the Cosmos or NYCFC, or what they should feel or think. I'm not going to disrespect a grown person by telling them what they should do with their hard-earned money. And for the record I've known Mike for 17 years, think the world of him and feel that he was treated in shoddy fashion. But I'd appreciate it if you didn't come on here and lie about statistics or facts that I give that are perfectly valid, because I covered both of them and know my numbers to be accurate.

 

Ok, thanks for the condescention. 

To your first part, follow me closely. I'm not sure if you're purposely coming on here being deceitful or you simply don't know any better. But with apologies to Lenny Wilkins, Karl is the winningest coach in Sonics history by victories, winning percentage, every possible metric. He had seasons of 64 wins, 63 wins and that 61-win season that got him fired. And yes, those are not the two best seasons in team history; they're the THREE best seasons in team history, including the move to Oklahoma City. 

 

But maybe you don't watch the NBA. So I'll go to my NFL example. Try to follow it closely. Marty led the Chargers to a 14-2 record after a 9-win campaign the year before. And not only are the 14 wins a team-record, but the 23 wins over a two year span are the best two-year span in Chargers history. That was the metric you wanted, right?

....

giphy.gif


"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." - Iron Mike

 

Bitch covered my plaid?
The sorrow inside me grows.
I need my plaid pitch.

"It goes without saying that when things don't go your way they just don't go your way. " - JCO

"He can't kick with his left foot, he can't tackle, he can't head the ball and he doesn't score many goals. Apart from that, he's all right.”
George Best, on David Beckham


#17
Henry_Krinkle

Henry_Krinkle

    First Team

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 758 posts
Sorry Mr Lewis not trying to be condescending but first if you think ANY two seasons under Karl were more successful than 78-79 under Wilkens
then we'll agree to disagree. I'll take 2 trips to the finals and one championship any time. As for Marty he was fired simply for one reason - he didn't win in the playoffs in SD- like ever. Hell Bobby Ross had the same record as Marty reg season and took them to the SB. So in other words Petke did in this past season - 2 playoff rounds won- what Marty couldn't do once in 5 years. Are we talking the amount of wins in a season or the farthest you go in any given season? A supporters shield and a final 4 trip on back to back years is the best 2 year in our history. No justification, no logic, no reasoning, no defending this firing. This owner, new owner I don't care. Brutal move.
PS - I'm a Knicks fan so yes I do watch the NBA but it is unwatchable right now.

#18
BLewis1968

BLewis1968

    First Team

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 955 posts

Sorry Mr Lewis not trying to be condescending but first if you think ANY two seasons under Karl were more successful than 78-79 under Wilkens
then we'll agree to disagree. I'll take 2 trips to the finals and one championship any time. As for Marty he was fired simply for one reason - he didn't win in the playoffs in SD- like ever. Hell Bobby Ross had the same record as Marty reg season and took them to the SB. So in other words Petke did in this past season - 2 playoff rounds won- what Marty couldn't do once in 5 years. Are we talking the amount of wins in a season or the farthest you go in any given season? A supporters shield and a final 4 trip on back to back years is the best 2 year in our history. No justification, no logic, no reasoning, no defending this firing. This owner, new owner I don't care. Brutal move.
PS - I'm a Knicks fan so yes I do watch the NBA but it is unwatchable right now.

Now you're moving the goalposts. 1) You said, and I quote, "All of your coaching examples did not lead their respective teams to the best 2 years of their history. None of them." That was not true, and I showed that clearly. I know San Diego and Seattle are long flights, but they are still in North America. If you want further north, though, the Maple Loafs stupidly canned Nielson the year after he won a team-record 41 games. Granted, at least they hired him back, so who knows if there's hope here lol? 2) I know perfectly well why Marty was fired. Coaches are fired for all different reasons. Sometimes it's for not winning, sometimes its for making too much, sometimes its for not being the new boss' guy. You don't have to care the reasons, that's completely up to you. I'm just saying it happens for all different reasons. 4) I'm acutely aware of Marty's postseason failings. But you can't have it both ways. You can't quote me the Shield as a reason to keep Petke and then ignore Marty's 14-2 and Karl's 61-win season. You can't quote me Petke's two playoff series wins and Lenny's playoff success and then say I'm going to ignore JCO's two playoff wins, which would by that metric make that two-year run succesful. I try to look at body of work. And again, while I personally might not have fired the man (understanding of course that I know him and I'm biased), 1) my facts were and are right, and 2) no matter how unpopular (or even stupid) the decision may have been, it isn't hard evidence that the owner isn't commited to keeping the team, which was the original comment I was referring to. If people think that's what passes for hard evidence, I hope none of them are ever in a jury with me on trial. (Oh, he likes United? That proves he's a douche, so he must be guilty. Fry him!)

#19
Henry_Krinkle

Henry_Krinkle

    First Team

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 758 posts
But I never said the owners weren't committed to keeping or selling or winning.That wasn't my point. My first comment was the firing of Landry was justified coming off 3 straight losing seasons. The Petke firing, I believe wasn't. I know coaches are fired for many reasons. I get it. Been following sports for 40 years. I still haven't seen, read or heard a logical reason why this coach was.I Do think winning a shield in MLS means, fair or not, more than 14-2 or 61 wins in those other sports. The way everyone celebrated it certainly appeared that way.

#20
Metrohoboken

Metrohoboken

    Dir. of Football Operations

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,583 posts
Brian Lewis!!

Thanks for the helpful (yet unfortunate) history of successful coaches getting canned across many sports.
NYRB hasn't cornered the market on stupidity just contributed greatly.

Bradley Wright-Phillips "I prefer it at Red Bull Arena, but it was OK. I could imagine it being good for a baseball crowd.


#21
BLewis1968

BLewis1968

    First Team

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 955 posts

But I never said the owners weren't committed to keeping or selling or winning.That wasn't my point. My first comment was the firing of Landry was justified coming off 3 straight losing seasons. The Petke firing, I believe wasn't. I know coaches are fired for many reasons. I get it. Been following sports for 40 years. I still haven't seen, read or heard a logical reason why this coach was.I Do think winning a shield in MLS means, fair or not, more than 14-2 or 61 wins in those other sports. The way everyone celebrated it certainly appeared that way.

 

 

But I never said the owners weren't committed to keeping or selling or winning.That wasn't my point. My first comment was the firing of Landry was justified coming off 3 straight losing seasons. The Petke firing, I believe wasn't. I know coaches are fired for many reasons. I get it. Been following sports for 40 years. I still haven't seen, read or heard a logical reason why this coach was.I Do think winning a shield in MLS means, fair or not, more than 14-2 or 61 wins in those other sports. The way everyone celebrated it certainly appeared that way.

I didn't say you said it. The original post that I responded to did however mention this unnamed blog post that went out of its way to debunk my story that Red Bull was not currently on the market, claiming that their grand plan is to be sold within a year, and another poster holding up their "poor" decisions as proof that the owner isn't commited to keeping the team and is out to sell. I responded by saying firing a coach isn't what I (or any professional journalist, or a court of law, or any dispassionate person) would say constitutes hard evidence. Then you started on this rant making proclamations that "you can't fire him off two years like that." At which point I responded that (fair or not) it can and does happen. And again, you said - not that it was uncouth (which it was), unfair (which is probably was) or unwise (which is probably was), or that it was illogical - that never before in the long history of North American sport had a coach been fired after the two most succesful years in team history. You even snidely promised to be all ears, which hasnt proven to be true.

And now once again, you're moving the goalposts. Now you've gone from stating it has never happened to - once shown that it has - trying to make it subjective and say now those seasons aren't as good as the Red Bulls' 2013 season in your opinion, so who cares?  Whatever. I don't care that you don't value a 14-2 NFL season, or 61-win NBA season. That's completely up to you. But it's not at all what you said, and now you're moving your story around. And don't try and tell me that 14-2 season wasnt the best record in Charger history, because it was. I'm only dealing with facts here, not hyperbole or emotional rants. 



#22
Henry_Krinkle

Henry_Krinkle

    First Team

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 758 posts
Brian please OK. I'm not moving the goalposts. No one in SD values that season for anything other than a flameout in the end. The anger toward Marty after that postseason was real. I mean yes they were 23-9 with 1 playoff game but Ross was 20-12 over 2 years with 4 playoff games incl a SB. Which 2 years would you take? The other example is clear, not moving the goal post. The 78-79 Sonics are the best 2 yrs, not the 61 and 57 seasons. Two finals trips and a title. Ask any Sonic fan. I could easily make a case that this firing on the surface may be the worst in 40 years in the US. Last thing I'll say is none of your examples did it in their first 2 years. Petke did. Thats a fact, ok?That's where my confusion and anger comes in regarding this move. I won't post anymore on this subject because obviously I'm too emotional or unfair or pick your adjective.

#23
RedBullScouse

RedBullScouse

    Dir. of Football Operations

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,798 posts
  • Supports:Irresistable Mermaids/Liverpool/RU

.... (Oh, he likes United? That proves he's a douche, so he must be guilty. Fry him!)

I was 100% with you, until you threw this out there as an example of being irrational.   


"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." - Iron Mike

 

Bitch covered my plaid?
The sorrow inside me grows.
I need my plaid pitch.

"It goes without saying that when things don't go your way they just don't go your way. " - JCO

"He can't kick with his left foot, he can't tackle, he can't head the ball and he doesn't score many goals. Apart from that, he's all right.”
George Best, on David Beckham


#24
12th man

12th man

    New Signing

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 42 posts
  • Supports:New York Red Bulls, USMNT

Red Bull never gave Bruce Arena any opportunity to develop the team... look what he has done since in Los Angeles. 



#25
BLewis1968

BLewis1968

    First Team

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 955 posts

Sorry Mr Lewis not trying to be condescending but first if you think ANY two seasons under Karl were more successful than 78-79 under Wilkens
then we'll agree to disagree. 

 

The best team in Sonics history? 1995-96 under Karl.

http://nba-historica...tle-SuperSonics



#26
BLewis1968

BLewis1968

    First Team

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 955 posts

Red Bull never gave Bruce Arena any opportunity to develop the team... look what he has done since in Los Angeles. 

Agreed. But he was betrayed by one guy's incompetence and another's disloyalty. 



#27
onionsack

onionsack

    Dir. of Football Operations

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,765 posts
  • Location:New York CIty
  • Supports:New York Cosmos

No matter how you cut i though, firing Petke was fucking really stupid and amazingly out of touch


RED BULL OUT!!! - True Soccer fans in NY since 2006




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users