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#1 BenBurton

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 11:53 AM

http://www.guardian....ed=networkfront

According to the census, the top five segregated cities - Detroit, Milwaukee, New York, Chicago and Newark - are all in the north.


Boo.

#2 giaco

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 12:17 PM

People on the whole seem to segregate themselves naturally. Stereotypes are mostly based on caricatures of generalisable occurences, traits, and behaviours. Comedy is always skirting them to "push the envelope" (as it were), social commentary is always using them to illuminate misunderstandings between groups, and idiots are always using them as though they were fact. No real cure for that. I don't think America was ever a "melting pot", more like an oil and water suspension.

#3 Thirsty Poet

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 12:25 PM

Ben, I am glad that you posted a story about the Jena 6 on here. This is a story I have been following for quite a while now and I am happy that people across the country are becoming aware of their case. The bi-monthly International Socialist Review has the story of the Jena 6 as the cover story in the most recent issue. For people not familiar with the case, the article is a must read.

http://www.isreview....s/55/jena.shtml

On a positive note, Mychal Bell had his conviction overturned last week. Unfortionatly, he is still in custody while the racist prosecuters plan their appeal.
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#4 Neopolitan

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 05:14 PM

http://www.guardian....ed=networkfront
"According to the census, the top five segregated cities - Detroit, Milwaukee, New York, Chicago and Newark - are all in the north."

Boo.

No, it's a "yay!" It's the Guardian's interpretation of segregation that is "boo." Most cities are not segregated because most cities don't have such a diverse ethnic makeup as Chicago. Sure there is segregation, but that is mostly due to the fact that we actually have a lot of foreign nationals in our city. Real foreigners, first and second generations, who came specifically to Chicago because they could choose to live amongst people of their culture and/or race. Take my parents for example. Neither of them spoke English when they came to Chicago. If they didn't live in a place like Little Village, they would have struggled greatly to get by on a basic level. By not having the pressures of instant assimilation, they were able to embrace American culture at their pace. My dad learned to speak, read and write in English at work. My mom learned to speak, read and write in English from TV and from doing our school work with us. I doubt we could have done that in Whitestown, IN.

Besides, if there was total integration in the city, we would lose the unique experiences one receives while traveling through the city. You can go and watch an actual Chinese New Year's celebration... or cheer on Blanco at the Mexican Independence Day Parade... or go to a Vietnamese restaurant and find out why your uncle that served in Vietnam hates the taste/smell of "nuoc mam" so much... or get yelled at by your polish friend when you accidentally order a "polish sausage" at a Sox game instead of a "kielbasa"...or buy your gal an authentic Indian Sari for her best friend's wedding. Now, I am not advocating that people refuse to embrace the American culture, but what makes being an American unique is that though we are all equal, we are not the same... and thats a good thing.

#5 BenBurton

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 05:25 PM

1) The "boo" was really just about the racism.
2) The segregation I don't like is the economic based segregation, no the beauty of Little Italy, Pilsen and Chinatown all being in one city Ward.

#6 Slvgx

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 06:50 PM

I don't trust anything from Guardian.

Unfortunately I've seen it first hand, Chicago is segregated. Personally I think it has more to do with money than race, even though they tend to have a direct correlation in Chicago.

I haven't ever seen first hand out right racism in Chicago, but I've seen plenty of times the thick line between the haves and the have-nots.

#7 Neopolitan

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 07:58 PM

1) The "boo" was really just about the racism.


I concur.

2) The segregation I don't like is the economic based segregation, no the beauty of Little Italy, Pilsen and Chinatown all being in one city Ward.


There are two half to that equation, though. The better an area is economically, the more expensive it is to live there. And to a newly arrived immigrant, that is the kiss of death. The barrio stays a barrio because those that can leave, do, making room for more New Americans to take their place. It keeps the area economically depressed, but accessible to the poor.

#8 TheRedGrobar

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 08:14 PM

Carl Zeiss... ?

#9 WolfmanHasNards!

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 08:46 PM

Yikes! The Guardian and a socialist rag sited in the same thread.

#10 hendo

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 09:31 PM

Chicago is extremely segregated when it comes to whites & blacks. When I lived in Mt. Greenwood and took the 112/Vincennes bus to the red line at 95th every day, I was literally the only white person on that entire commute. There are huge swaths of the south & west sides that few white people will step foot in. There are also large areas on the north side that are gentrified to the point where minorities were forced out.

The 1919 race riots, white flight, the projects, the Vrdolyak 29, etc...this city has a bad record when it comes to race relations.
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#11 BenBurton

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 10:19 PM

OK everyone, the story about Jena has nothing to do with Socialist Rags or The Guardian. It's been news for a long time.

As for "barrios", The City of Chicago admitted that it created "The Projects" to segregate by race. That's one of the motivations for taking them all down. More recently, Cook County was found to have been using property taxes to segregate by race. So there you have it.

#12 FIRExNECK

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 10:41 PM

Fred Hampton is all I gotta say.





Chicago is wickedly segrated. Pisses me off.

.::ANTIFA CHICAGO::.
.::ULTRAS :: RED :: SIDE::.
.::They call me Jesse White in Canada::.


#13 Neopolitan

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 11:02 PM

As for "barrios", The City of Chicago admitted that it created "The Projects" to segregate by race. That's one of the motivations for taking them all down. More recently, Cook County was found to have been using property taxes to segregate by race. So there you have it.

Yes, but the city is also gerrymandered to all heck. Those barrios allow hispanics and blacks each a guaranteed seat in the House of Representatives and several seats in the City Council. Integration would destroy that, and less representation in the city and federal governments would only make it simpler to marginalize the races further. So, in spite of the problems, there are benefits to the communities to remain segregated. Whether the benefits offset the losses, I cannot say for certain.

I will freely admit that the property tax system in this state is completely out of whack, though.

#14 kenosis

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 11:18 PM

http://www.guardian....ed=networkfront
Boo.


I'm calling shenanigans. The indices of dissimilarity I've seen aren't quite that clear-cut with regards to the North in specificity. The confounding variables in this seems to be city size and age ... because, well, bigger cities and older cities tend to have higher indices of dissimilarity, and bigger cities are found in the North. Consider the largest CMSAs in the country, for example. Those in the South - 8, 9, and 10, have all grown extremely rapidly.

Nor do I think that the knee-jerk reaction - that cities that have large indices of dissimilarity have become so due to ethnocultural marginalization - is entirely causal. But it does have a lot of merit, especially among proponents of Homer Hoyt, whose models for urban sector organization remain wildly popular despite the fact that they're 70-80 years old.

According to the statistics in front of me, the five cities with the highest black segregation indices are:

1) Detroit (88)
2) Chicago (86)
3) Boston (78)
4) St. Louis (77)
5) Los Angeles-Long Beach (73)

The Asian Segregation Index, though, is totally different ...

1,2 ) New York and San Diego (48)
3) Los Angeles-Long Beach (46)
4,5,6) Chicago, Philadelphia, Detroit

The Hispanic Segregation Index ...

1) New York (66)
2,3) Chicago, Philadelphia (63)
4) Log Angeles (61)

Source: my old Urban Geography textbook

#15 Saeyddthe

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 11:38 PM

How many of you live in the neighborhood you grew up in?
How many of you work in the neighborhood you live?

Just curious.

Anyone ever been in the midst of a "race riot" before?
Or maybe just a fight/incident that was race related?

Just curious.




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