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If Kljestan sits, who starts?


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#136
iced1776

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Hes only assists though. Every other quality CAM in the league is also a goal threat.

If he stays, whats the plan in the playoffs when teams focus on him and he gets shut down? You cant change really formation because he can only that one role.

Lose, I guess? I'm not as convinced as you that winning in the playoffs is impossible with Kljestan though.

 

Show me the Almiron-level CAM whose gonna replace him, until then I just think its too big of a risk to let him go.



#137
ivo

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I've been over this before, but almost every attack went through him because... who else was it going to go through? BWP is as great of a finisher as there has ever been in MLS but he's not a Villa or Giovinco, who is going to make plays in midfield and distribute. Royer was hurt for half the time. Veron played 20 minutes per game. 
 
Please re-read my post. "Hockey assists" have nothing to do with primary assist expected totals.

Not saying that every attack shouldn't have gone through him given what you say about BWP/Royer/Veron. Just that the high assist numbers - both actual/hockey and primary expected ones - are heavily affected by the fact that he was the primary and often the lone creator. I think it's fair to mention that context when you or others say he's a league leader in those categories.

He doesn't offer much when pressing anymore or with his shooting (he has a good shot but for whatever reason refuses to pull the trigger). We've tried and failed with a team where a younger/physically better Sacha is the best player.

You could argue that adding better wing players and better defense, or better coaching or even just a bit more luck could have put us over the top in any of the 15/16/17 seasons (and I would agree!), but looking at 2018 and beyond, I don't think that Sacha being our best player will take us where we want to. Time to trade him for a decent haul, especially given his value will only go down from where it is now.

#138
ivo

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He's not a versatile player by now, he's a #10 and only a #10. But he's a damn good one, the expected assists per game is right up there too and that ignores whether the chance was finished. 
 
If Red Bull is willing to pay for a younger, more dynamic version of Kljestan before he ships to LAFC, sure I can buy that. But if they aren't, or can't find that guy, then letting Kljestan go seems nuts to me. He's still the only proven playmaker on the team.

It's hard to find affordable and proven players, especially in that #10 position. Especially when not wanting to spend a lot of money.

RB splashing 10-15M for an Almiron type would be great, but I don't think anyone here is expecting that to happen. I also don't think running Sacha out there again will make us a better team than last year than in 15/16/17.

So I think we have to gamble and i also believe Adams would do a good job there. Or we can try to find someone else (esp given Tyler is gone sooner or later). Sacha wasn't a proven 10 when he came but that worked out pretty well.

#139
McSoccer

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Lose, I guess? I'm not as convinced as you that winning in the playoffs is impossible with Kljestan though.
 
Show me the Almiron-level CAM whose gonna replace him, until then I just think its too big of a risk to let him go.

I dont know if hes staying, but if he is, Adams.

#140
thoward18

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Not saying that every attack shouldn't have gone through him given what you say about BWP/Royer/Veron. Just that the high assist numbers - both actual/hockey and primary expected ones - are heavily affected by the fact that he was the primary and often the lone creator. I think it's fair to mention that context when you or others say he's a league leader in those categories.

 

 

 

 

Sacha Kljestan by year (Statistics all courtesy of American Soccer Analysis.)

 

2015

xA 8.89  KP 80 Touch % 11.7%

 

2016:

xA: 9.97 KP 105 Touch % 10.9%

 

2017:

xA: 11.33 KP 111 Touch % 12.8%

 

I'm not really seeing what you're talking about here. He had a bigger share of the team's touches in 2017, and his xA and key passes went up at a rate pretty consistent to that. No, he wasn't as good in 2017 as he was in 2016, but he was still really damn good. To compare, Nicolas Lodeiro had fewer key passes and expected assists than Sacha despite playing more minutes and having a bigger share of his team's touches.

 

 

 

 

He doesn't offer much when pressing anymore or with his shooting (he has a good shot but for whatever reason refuses to pull the trigger). We've tried and failed with a team where a younger/physically better Sacha is the best player.

You could argue that adding better wing players and better defense, or better coaching or even just a bit more luck could have put us over the top in any of the 15/16/17 seasons (and I would agree!), but looking at 2018 and beyond, I don't think that Sacha being our best player will take us where we want to. Time to trade him for a decent haul, especially given his value will only go down from where it is now.

 

Thierry Henry wasn't as good at many things, such as pressing and finishing, when he was 37 compared to 33. So he adapted. Trading Sacha in itself doesn't make the team better. It makes the team significantly worse. I'm confused as to why that's your solution instead of to add more good players. 



#141
McSoccer

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Sacha Kljestan by year (Statistics all courtesy of American Soccer Analysis.)
 
2015
xA 8.89  KP 80 Touch % 11.7%
 
2016:
xA: 9.97 KP 105 Touch % 10.9%
 
2017:
xA: 11.33 KP 111 Touch % 12.8%
 
I'm not really seeing what you're talking about here. He had a bigger share of the team's touches in 2017, and his xA and key passes went up at a rate pretty consistent to that. No, he wasn't as good in 2017 as he was in 2016, but he was still really damn good. To compare, Nicolas Lodeiro had fewer key passes and expected assists than Sacha despite playing more minutes and having a bigger share of his team's touches.

Sacha is an assist machine. As good as or better than anyone else in the league in that department. The question is, is that enough?

Do you need your CAM to be at least a little bit of a goal threat? Do you need your CAM to be better in the press? If things arent working in a match, do you need your CAM to be flexible enough to be able to play a slightly different role or in a slightly different spot on the pitch?

If the answer to these questions is, No, then Sachas probably our best bet. And, we obviously can win with Sacha. The likelihood of that happening though, is getting smaller and smaller because of his age.

#142
Antonius Block

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We should focus on replacing our worst players before focusing on replacing out best players.  






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