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Metro - Fire Game Thread


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#16
defendyourself

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Will Armas try something new or will he stick with the same failed tactics that never won the club any titles over the last five years?

Something has got to change.

I wish Armas didn't try something new in Mexico by playing Etienne at CM..

 

some of this is getting the guys to just play better, most of them are playing below their expected level now.  I hope in training they are working more with BWP and Jorgenson playing up top together.  We need to find a way to make that work later in game when we need a goal.



#17
Komba

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Try something new?  We're great in the regular season.  Don't try something new because it's not going to get better than it is.  Hell, no team in the history of the league did it better than we did last year.

 

The time to try something new is maybe playoffs.  Or at the very end of the regular season moving towards the playoffs.



#18
iced1776

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Where is this insane idea that Armas uses the same exact tactics as Marsch coming from? Just Grelladinho right?



#19
ivo

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Try something new?  We're great in the regular season.  Don't try something new because it's not going to get better than it is.  Hell, no team in the history of the league did it better than we did last year.

 

The time to try something new is maybe playoffs.  Or at the very end of the regular season moving towards the playoffs.

Huh? The time to try stuff for the playoffs is exactly early on/during the season. Getting comfortable in a "regular season approach" (whatever that is) for 30+ games, then frantically trying new stuff on the fly as effort from all teams intensifies (particularly defensively) at the business end is what we've done ever since Marsch took over and it hasn't worked well at all in the playoffs.

 

If we magically figure something that would work well in the playoffs, it would work just fine in the regular season too.



#20
RedBullScouse

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Huh? The time to try stuff for the playoffs is exactly early on/during the season. Getting comfortable in a "regular season approach" (whatever that is) for 30+ games, then frantically trying new stuff on the fly as effort from all teams intensifies (particularly defensively) at the business end is what we've done ever since Marsch took over and it hasn't worked well at all in the playoffs.

 

If we magically figure something that would work well in the playoffs, it would work just fine in the regular season too.

I believe the school of thought would be that whatever we do in the regular season, teams will adjust to for the playoffs, so we need a different look in the playoffs than what we use in the regular season.   


"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." - Iron Mike

 

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#21
ivo

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I believe the school of thought would be that whatever we do in the regular season, teams will adjust to for the playoffs, so we need a different look in the playoffs than what we use in the regular season.   

I'd rather rely on our well-drilled best approach, whatever that ends up being, than on the element of surprise and/or desperation. We have shown we are not very good at the latter over 20+ years in general and over the past ~5 under the current regime specifically.



#22
RedBullScouse

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I'd rather rely on our well-drilled best approach, whatever that ends up being, than on the element of surprise and/or desperation. We have shown we are not very good at the latter over 20+ years in general and over the past ~5 under the current regime specifically.

The ability to play multiple systems takes time to develop.   This is the first regime that has even attempted it in any meaningful way.   


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"It goes without saying that when things don't go your way they just don't go your way. " - JCO

"He can't kick with his left foot, he can't tackle, he can't head the ball and he doesn't score many goals. Apart from that, he's all right.”
George Best, on David Beckham


#23
Grelladinho

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Where is this insane idea that Armas uses the same exact tactics as Marsch coming from? Just Grelladinho right?

The 4-2-3-1, pressing, trying to cross the ball into the box, lack of shooting from outside it.

But yeah, insanity right?

#24
ivo

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The ability to play multiple systems takes time to develop.   This is the first regime that has even attempted it in any meaningful way.   

Totally - just start working on different stuff early in the season, not in regular season games in September or after we're down in the 1st leg of a playoff series.



#25
rhactl7

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Wasn't able to watch this game but any discussion of change of tactics is fine with me. We have already seen what happens when we only play one way. Great in the regular season - not so much in the playoffs. If learning new tactics results in growing pains and we don't win every game - that's fine - if Armas thinks it can help us in the playoffs.



#26
iced1776

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The 4-2-3-1, pressing, trying to cross the ball into the box, lack of shooting from outside it.

But yeah, insanity right?

 

Written formations like 4-2-3-1 don't actually mean much, you can play an incredibly wide variety of ways from the same basic starting shape. Here's an awesome post by a coach on Reddit that talks about this stuff a little more. Marsch ran the attack almost exclusively through the middle of the field, Armas goes mostly down the right side through Murillo. Marsch would literally set a shot clock for the team to get a shot on goal as quickly as possible, Armas prefers to actually keep some possession in the final third. Stuff like that completely changes how a team would approach us defensively.

 

Does any coach ever actually instruct their team to shoot from distance? This one's definitely not just you Grelladinho, seen this pop up from a bunch of fans since last season. It sounds odd that you'd prefer your guys take low-chance shots. Reminds me of the guy who bought Cardiff City in England a few years ago and asked why guys weren't shooting from midfield.



#27
RedBullScouse

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.... It sounds odd that you'd prefer your guys take low-chance shots....

Not low chance, but low-er chance.    It really is bordering on absurd how little we shoot from distance, or how often we take an extra touch rather than one-time the shot.    I say that with all awareness that its way harder than it looks, and that what may seem like an open shot from my angle isn't one from the player's angle.    I'm just comparing against what I see everywhere else.

 

Last year we were 13th in the league in number of shots taken.    I think we can be a tad more aggressive than that.


"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." - Iron Mike

 

Bitch covered my plaid?
The sorrow inside me grows.
I need my plaid pitch.

"It goes without saying that when things don't go your way they just don't go your way. " - JCO

"He can't kick with his left foot, he can't tackle, he can't head the ball and he doesn't score many goals. Apart from that, he's all right.”
George Best, on David Beckham


#28
ivo

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Does any coach ever actually instruct their team to shoot from distance? This one's definitely not just you Grelladinho, seen this pop up from a bunch of fans since last season. It sounds odd that you'd prefer your guys take low-chance shots. Reminds me of the guy who bought Cardiff City in England a few years ago and asked why guys weren't shooting from midfield.

If the alternative is to keep trying and failing to unlock the defense with short passing, "low-odds" chances can be good, of course. We've seen examples where we've scored off a lucky bounce or a rebound (Royer v TFC, vs SJ last week, etc) . Can't get a lucky bounce on a shot if you don't shoot. Also if we become a more credible threat to score from distance, defense could push up or close down a little more than they do now and open up more spaces for passing lanes, dribbles, etc.



#29
Grelladinho

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Written formations like 4-2-3-1 don't actually mean much, you can play an incredibly wide variety of ways from the same basic starting shape. Here's an awesome post by a coach on Reddit that talks about this stuff a little more. Marsch ran the attack almost exclusively through the middle of the field, Armas goes mostly down the right side through Murillo. Marsch would literally set a shot clock for the team to get a shot on goal as quickly as possible, Armas prefers to actually keep some possession in the final third. Stuff like that completely changes how a team would approach us defensively.
 
Does any coach ever actually instruct their team to shoot from distance? This one's definitely not just you Grelladinho, seen this pop up from a bunch of fans since last season. It sounds odd that you'd prefer your guys take low-chance shots. Reminds me of the guy who bought Cardiff City in England a few years ago and asked why guys weren't shooting from midfield.

Thanks for the Reddit link, will delve into it later.

You are right about how coaches can deploy the same formation differently --- I think overall though I would like Armas to experiment with two forwards, or a few others to play farther up the field with BWP.

As for low percentage shots, doing those is better than not shooting at all. You could tell in the Orlando game that the approach wasn't working, yet they continued to play through Duncan and pass the ball around, or lob it to BWP and leave him alone up there. Davis and Rza have scored from distance before. Why should players like them not shoot more? Any deflection could help.

#30
MiLo4891

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Written formations like 4-2-3-1 don't actually mean much, you can play an incredibly wide variety of ways from the same basic starting shape. Here's an awesome post by a coach on Reddit that talks about this stuff a little more. Marsch ran the attack almost exclusively through the middle of the field, Armas goes mostly down the right side through Murillo. Marsch would literally set a shot clock for the team to get a shot on goal as quickly as possible, Armas prefers to actually keep some possession in the final third. Stuff like that completely changes how a team would approach us defensively.
 
Does any coach ever actually instruct their team to shoot from distance? This one's definitely not just you Grelladinho, seen this pop up from a bunch of fans since last season. It sounds odd that you'd prefer your guys take low-chance shots. Reminds me of the guy who bought Cardiff City in England a few years ago and asked why guys weren't shooting from midfield.


Lower chances shot are better than less amount of shots...

Shooting from distance to me is the same reason why teams do I high press... You're trying to force errors... You're trying to get the goalkeeper to at least give a corner kick or a rebound a forward can capitalize on.... And there was a saying i heard as a kid out of twenty bad shots one bound to go in....


There's a time and situation to shoot from distance..it does multiple things... It also forces the opposing backline to contest guys further from goal and then that breaks their shape..

Of course you want a high probability to but again more shots are better than less shots
I just want Metro to win a title sometime in my lifetime.




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