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EPL Interest in Aaron Long


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#241
ivo

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The appeals process is just a points-based system, so you can make some pretty educated guesses as to the outcome. It's in the FA Handbook.

No, that is not completely true. While the points system can automatically grant the player a permit following an "objective review," the panel also has discretion to grant one in its "subjective review."

If a player does not meet the automatic criteria set out above, an applicant club can request that an Exceptions Panel consider the players experience and value in order to determine whether a Governing Body Endorsement should nevertheless be granted.

If a player scores fewer than 4 points by reference to the Part A objective criteria
and a Cumulative Total Score of fewer than 5 points under the Part A and Part B
objective criteria, the Exceptions Panel is guided to refuse a GBE unless it is satisfied,
following its subjective review, that the player is internationally established at the
highest level and that his employment will make a significant contribution to the
development of football at the highest level in England . In determining this, the
Exceptions Panel may consider any other circumstances or facts which it deems
to be relevant in its absolute discretion in deciding whether to recommend that a
GBE is awarded.



#242
Borats

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The very real consequences of the "don't like it, don't sign it" attitude is Juan Agudelo.

 

He refused to sign a contract unless it was exactly what he wanted, and he didn't play for a year plus during a critical stage in his development (which had already been bungled). Now he's an above average MLS attacker on his best day. He passed up work and financial security in search of the absolute perfect opportunity and got screwed.

 

The idea that a player shouldn't sign a contract because someday a better opportunity might come along at an undetermined date is absurd. It's a totally unreasonable line of thinking in any other profession.

 

The flip side of that is that the Red Bulls and MLS are completely within their rights to seek appropriate compensation for the player. What was being offered was not appropriate, given a number of factors. If Long wants to move on, I have no problem with the team/league accommodating him in the off-season. But we could still win the east, lock up a Champions League spot and a first round bye and make a run in the playoffs. We're not doing that with Sean Nealis as the first CB off the bench in his rookie season.

To me the idea that if we don't get a good value for our good young players we still must sell them, otherwise young talent would sign with us later, makes no sense. Usually when you bring young guys, they get a pretty handsome raise as well, like Kaku. Red Bulls need to do what's best for Red Bulls. We should be willing to sell Long, but only in the off-season and if the price is quite high, as he is now the best defender in US. Then we can use the money to improve the roster. If no one is willing to make a high offer that satisfies RB, then Long is going to have to play out his contract, as simple as that. And no, that won't prevent us from getting other young players and giving them a raise over their current situation.



#243
JBigjake54

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Long ... is now the best defender in US.


Not currently.

We are good enough to beat the best teams, and bad enough to lose to the worst teams. 


#244
McSoccer

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To me the idea that if we don't get a good value for our good young players we still must sell them, otherwise young talent would sign with us later, makes no sense. Usually when you bring young guys, they get a pretty handsome raise as well, like Kaku. Red Bulls need to do what's best for Red Bulls. We should be willing to sell Long, but only in the off-season and if the price is quite high, as he is now the best defender in US. Then we can use the money to improve the roster. If no one is willing to make a high offer that satisfies RB, then Long is going to have to play out his contract, as simple as that. And no, that won't prevent us from getting other young players and giving them a raise over their current situation.

I agree with selling players in the offseason. The problem is our offseason is different from the rest of the world. We see how hard players have adjusting mid season to MLS, imagine how hard adjusting to the EPL is.

Youre right, we have to get a good price for our players, but the market is the market. If we value our players higher than the rest of the world and then force them to stay here and not let them go, it will hurt us signing young players. It also hurts the team. Both Murillo and Kaku have wanted to leave and we kept both because the price wasnt high enough. Murillo has basically checked out and it took Kaku half a season and a couple of suspensions to get his shit together. Are we better for having held on to Murillo? Is Kaku worth even less now than he was over the winter? I dont know, but the situation is no where near as simple as you suggest.

#245
iced1776

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And no, that won't prevent us from getting other young players and giving them a raise over their current situation.

 

For international players especially I'm not sure this is true. Nobody growing up in South America dreams of playing in MLS their entire career, and we don't tend to overpay those guys all that much. Kaku barely makes more here than the average salary in Argentina's first division.

 

We're a stepping stone to bigger and better things for these players. I don't think Red Bull is being unreasonable in Long's case, but if they develop a reputation for holding players hostage then young guys will 100% think twice about joining another team or league to further their career.



#246
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For international players especially I'm not sure this is true. Nobody growing up in South America dreams of playing in MLS their entire career, and we don't tend to overpay those guys all that much. Kaku barely makes more here than the average salary in Argentina's first division.
 
We're a stepping stone to bigger and better things for these players. I don't think Red Bull is being unreasonable in Long's case, but if they develop a reputation for holding players hostage then young guys will 100% think twice about joining another team or league to further their career.

of course its a stepping stone but if they dont sell Long in the off-season or do this 2 more times then its different

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#247
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I agree with selling players in the offseason. The problem is our offseason is different from the rest of the world. We see how hard players have adjusting mid season to MLS, imagine how hard adjusting to the EPL is.

Youre right, we have to get a good price for our players, but the market is the market. If we value our players higher than the rest of the world and then force them to stay here and not let them go, it will hurt us signing young players. It also hurts the team. Both Murillo and Kaku have wanted to leave and we kept both because the price wasnt high enough. Murillo has basically checked out and it took Kaku half a season and a couple of suspensions to get his shit together. Are we better for having held on to Murillo? Is Kaku worth even less now than he was over the winter? I dont know, but the situation is no where near as simple as you suggest.

EPL offered less than 3 mil for Long: https://www.prosocce...s-less-than-3m/

And he is the starting CB for USMNT. I am not saying not to transfer when you get good value. But to give up players for peanuts just because EPL decided to low ball us and then probably send Long on a loan somewhere like they did to Miazga, simply doesn't make sense. Same is true for Lawrence, Murillo, Kaku, and others. We went through a lot of trouble to get Kaku if you remember. It would need to be a very handsome and good offer for us to part ways even if Kaku or Long want us to take peanuts so they can move on.

 

Also, you really think young guys like Murillo or Kaku played like shit because they checked out? I highly doubt that. Lawrence was fine after we didn't send him to Turkey for peanuts. Kaku was in a slump, but regained form, which happens to a lot of players. Murillo still sucks, but hey there are many examples of people having one good year and not being able to repeat it. I would blame it more on Murillo himself.



#248
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For international players especially I'm not sure this is true. Nobody growing up in South America dreams of playing in MLS their entire career, and we don't tend to overpay those guys all that much. Kaku barely makes more here than the average salary in Argentina's first division.

 

We're a stepping stone to bigger and better things for these players. I don't think Red Bull is being unreasonable in Long's case, but if they develop a reputation for holding players hostage then young guys will 100% think twice about joining another team or league to further their career.

Yes, we may be a stepping stone, but Atlanta got Almiron for 8 mil, then got two years out of him as a stepping stone, and sold for 27 mil season end. They used the money to get another big name player. Now, that makes sense. For us to  groom Long for many years into MLS best defender and starter on USMNT, get only 1 full year out of him and sell for less than 3 doesn't. 



#249
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Yes, we may be a stepping stone, but Atlanta got Almiron for 8 mil, then got two years out of him as a stepping stone, and sold for 27 mil season end. They used the money to get another big name player. Now, that makes sense. For us to  groom Long for many years into MLS best defender and starter on USMNT, get only 1 full year out of him and sell for less than 3 doesn't. 

If the EPL offered $3M for a 27 year old CB this year (USMNT starter and MLS defender of the year), how much would they offer next season for a 28 year old CB?



#250
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If the EPL offered $3M for a 27 year old CB this year (USMNT starter and MLS defender of the year), how much would they offer next season for a 28 year old CB?

Perhaps not enough for us to trade him.



#251
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EPL offered less than 3 mil for Long: https://www.prosocce...s-less-than-3m/

And he is the starting CB for USMNT. I am not saying not to transfer when you get good value. But to give up players for peanuts just because EPL decided to low ball us and then probably send Long on a loan somewhere like they did to Miazga, simply doesn't make sense. Same is true for Lawrence, Murillo, Kaku, and others. We went through a lot of trouble to get Kaku if you remember. It would need to be a very handsome and good offer for us to part ways even if Kaku or Long want us to take peanuts so they can move on.

 

Also, you really think young guys like Murillo or Kaku played like shit because they checked out? I highly doubt that. Lawrence was fine after we didn't send him to Turkey for peanuts. Kaku was in a slump, but regained form, which happens to a lot of players. Murillo still sucks, but hey there are many examples of people having one good year and not being able to repeat it. I would blame it more on Murillo himself.

I'm not saying they should have sold Long $3M.  I was just disagreeing with the idea that holding on to players that want to go won't hurt you in signing future younger players.  You think Kaku is going to recommend RBNY to players from his former club if he doesn't eventually get his move to Mexico? I wouldn't bet on it.

 

Also, I 100% believe Kaku's issues were because he didn't want to be here.  He was almost an MVP quality player last season with, what seemed like, an amazing attitude.  This year, he doesn't get his move then he acts on twitter, he plays poorly, stupid red cards, suspensions for kicking balls in to the stands...  He was clearly frustrated with being here.  There's a direct correlation between us not selling and his poor play.

 

Murillo, I don't know because I don't remember a specific offer for him, so I'm not sure if he had his heart set on a move.  There was definitely talk of him wanting a move last season and then he takes a MAJOR step backward this season after it doesn't happen.  Could also be that he got paid more at RBNY and now cares less.

 

And, yes Lawrence was fine after he didn't move.  Every situation is different.  Handling this stuff is an art, not a science.  In Lawrence's case we were better not selling.  In Murillo's, we would have probably been better letting him.  You're analysis is just too simplistic, and doesn't take into account how players will react.



#252
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I'm not saying they should have sold Long $3M.  I was just disagreeing with the idea that holding on to players that want to go won't hurt you in signing future younger players.  You think Kaku is going to recommend RBNY to players from his former club if he doesn't eventually get his move to Mexico? I wouldn't bet on it.

 

Also, I 100% believe Kaku's issues were because he didn't want to be here.  He was almost an MVP quality player last season with, what seemed like, an amazing attitude.  This year, he doesn't get his move then he acts on twitter, he plays poorly, stupid red cards, suspensions for kicking balls in to the stands...  He was clearly frustrated with being here.  There's a direct correlation between us not selling and his poor play.

 

Murillo, I don't know because I don't remember a specific offer for him, so I'm not sure if he had his heart set on a move.  There was definitely talk of him wanting a move last season and then he takes a MAJOR step backward this season after it doesn't happen.  Could also be that he got paid more at RBNY and now cares less.

 

And, yes Lawrence was fine after he didn't move.  Every situation is different.  Handling this stuff is an art, not a science.  In Lawrence's case we were better not selling.  In Murillo's, we would have probably been better letting him.  You're analysis is just too simplistic, and doesn't take into account how players will react.

Kaku had a dip in production in the second half of last year where he started off leading MLS in assists and then had no assists at all for quite a long time. He then didn't make Paraguay NT, which meant a lot to him to the point he changed his citizenship from Argentina. The bottom line is, your belief that he struggled because he wanted to leave is a pure speculation, given that he really wanted to make Paraguay NT and already had some struggles last year, so this was not a new phenomena to go through below average spells, and he is back to playing well again. Murillo as you said didn't have an offer that we know of and sucked, while Lawrence did and did't go, yet produced well. So, all in all, there does not seem to be an evidence to suggest plays start to suck when we get a bad offer for them and decide not to move them.

 

As far as Kaku's friends, I think if the club treated Kaku well otherwise, and we offer his friend good money, he would not be opposed to come here. Think about this, we spent entire last summer negotiating for Kaku, working with agents, and got him for $7 mil transfer fee, plus some other expenses to agents, etc... Then he has a very good season, makes Paraguay NT (I think he actually started there when Liga MX called), and as you just said, was MLS MVP caliber player. And we only got 1 full year out of him. So, is it unreasonable to ask 12 mil transfer fee to start negotiations with Liga MX? I don't think so.



#253
Eleazar

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allegedly it was PSV for Murillo with the fee being 4m at most, maybe half?

 

imo, they should move players quick and sell them after 1 yr 18 months or 2 yrs. do it big mega club from Brazil/Argy style, the inverse of what they're doing now. if RBNY wants to be a team that develops and sells...


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#254
GMoney

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EPL offered less than 3 mil for Long: https://www.prosocce...s-less-than-3m/
lf.


That article is from July 20th.

The offer was subsequently raised.


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#255
McSoccer

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allegedly it was PSV for Murillo with the fee being 4m at most, maybe half?

 

imo, they should move players quick and sell them after 1 yr 18 months or 2 yrs. do it big mega club from Brazil/Argy style, the inverse of what they're doing now. if RBNY wants to be a team that develops and sells...

No one is paying anywhere near that for Murillo now...






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