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Arena and Klinsmann


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#1
ivo

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USA looks dominant. Bruce Arena GOAT coach.

Good showing but it was a game v Honduras at home. Klinsy probably wins that game too.

#2
magicmoron

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Good showing but it was a game v Honduras at home. Klinsy probably wins that game too.

In a vacuum yes, but I honestly think the players quit on/were fed up with him.



#3
ivo

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In a vacuum yes, but I honestly think the players quit on/were fed up with him.

That I agree with.

#4
Rybka

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I noticed Richie Williams on the bench. Did not see Tab. Am I correct?


FC Metropolis 7 Gotham City FC 0


#5
Eleazar

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Guess tab is doing final prep stuff for the U20 cup. 


RIP Guillermo Romulo, Alexander Francis Orig and Celenio Eleazar.

 

RIP Cesar Castello and Mike Vallo

 

"Metro..."

 


#6
Koko

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Good showing but it was a game v Honduras at home. Klinsy probably wins that game too.


Probably but not by 6, not with a cleansheet and CERTAINLY not while looking good and inspiring confidence along the way. With Klinsy they barely win it IF they win it.

Historically our margin of victory over Honduras in meaningful games has only been by ~1 goal. That's why this is a big deal.

#7
ivo

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Probably but not by 6, not with a cleansheet and CERTAINLY not while looking good and inspiring confidence along the way. With Klinsy they barely win it IF they win it.

Historically our margin of victory over Honduras in meaningful games has only been by ~1 goal. That's why this is a big deal.

Sure, Arena is the GOAT coach and after beating Honduras, we will now destroy everyone in our path. Come on. 

 

I'm not saying Klinsman was good (especially the last year or two) or that he should have stayed on after losing to CR. I'm saying Honduras defended poorly, and were pretty much done after that early goal. We were also lucky on a couple of goals. If Klinsman had a left footed goal by MB and a free kick goal by Dempsey in each of the games he managed, he would've done pretty well too. 



#8
Koko

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Sure, Arena is the GOAT coach and after beating Honduras, we will now destroy everyone in our path. Come on. 

 

I'm not saying Klinsman was good (especially the last year or two) or that he should have stayed on after losing to CR. I'm saying Honduras defended poorly, and were pretty much done after that early goal. We were also lucky on a couple of goals. If Klinsman had a left footed goal by MB and a free kick goal by Dempsey in each of the games he managed, he would've done pretty well too. 

You make your own luck.  And Klinsy never helped us in that regard.  Yes Honduras defended poorly.  A large part of that is that they went to press us high up the field and ARENA game planned to nullify that by completely bypassing the battle in the midfield which is something Jugen would NEVER have done.  He would have had us playing pointless knockaround in areas of non danger for 90 minutes without a single shot on goal.  Bruce out coached them.  That was a huge factor in this game.

 

Yes the early goal helped a LOT.  Yes he got a left footer and a free kick goal...but you have to put your team and your players in a position to succeed inorder to make those things happen.  Jurgen never did that.  And he got canned for it.

 

We're not going to "destroy everyone in our path".  We will have ups and downs under Arena like we would under any coach.  The player pool largely determines our ceiling.  What I'm saying is Jurgen would have never gotten this result.



#9
ivo

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You make your own luck.  And Klinsy never helped us in that regard.  Yes Honduras defended poorly.  A large part of that is that they went to press us high up the field and ARENA game planned to nullify that by completely bypassing the battle in the midfield which is something Jugen would NEVER have done.  He would have had us playing pointless knockaround in areas of non danger for 90 minutes without a single shot on goal.  Bruce out coached them.  That was a huge factor in this game.
 
Yes the early goal helped a LOT.  Yes he got a left footer and a free kick goal...but you have to put your team and your players in a position to succeed inorder to make those things happen.  Jurgen never did that.  And he got canned for it.
 
We're not going to "destroy everyone in our path".  We will have ups and downs under Arena like we would under any coach.  The player pool largely determines our ceiling.  What I'm saying is Jurgen would have never gotten this result.

If we play it another 10 times, neither would Arena. :) Like you said earlier, 6-0 is an outlier, so I definitely don't think it's indicative of the great work Arena has done or an amazing tactical approach. Enjoy the good result and move on.

Based on player talent, we should comfortably beat Honduras and similar teams at home, comfortably make the World Cup, and probably comfortably lose around the last 16 stage. Here's hoping we do better.

I still think Klinsman could have gotten us to the World Cup if he stayed on, but we'll never know and it doesn't matter. Again, not saying that he should have stayed after the two losses in the fall.

#10
elf

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Klinsman did a an amazinh job recruiting players like wood, zelalem, johnson, chandler, boyd and green. I think zelalem and green are the best prospects that USA has.

He failed in tactics. He tried to force the usa to play a style that they did not have the talent to do. In the world cup they looked terrible and got very luck to advance.

With arena or bradley, i dont think you will ever see USA out played like that.

#11
RandomHero

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JK needed to go simply because the players quit on him. 



#12
Koko

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Klinsman did a an amazinh job recruiting players like wood, zelalem, johnson, chandler, boyd and green.

Nitpicking but Wood was part of our U20 pool before Klinsy and Chandler was brought in by Bob Bradley.

 

And no doubt those other players have either contributed in great ways and/or are solid upcoming talent, but I disagree with the notion that any coach under the guidance of the USSF would not have found most of these guys and brought them in.  The history of the USMNT is littered with examples of guys like these being called up.



#13
Indyanapolis

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Nitpicking but Wood was part of our U20 pool before Klinsy and Chandler was brought in by Bob Bradley.
 
And no doubt those other players have either contributed in great ways and/or are solid upcoming talent, but I disagree with the notion that any coach under the guidance of the USSF would not have found most of these guys and brought them in.  The history of the USMNT is littered with examples of guys like these being called up.


Wood did an interview literally this week that said without Jurgen, he probably wouldn't even be playing right now.

Frankly, since I am merely a fan and a not a fancy American soccer writer, I'm going to congratulate Wright-Phillips on a well hit goal. If I was an American soccer writer, I'd claim that the recently retired Henry was wearing an invisibility cloak and carried the ball into the net for the obviously unskilled Wright-Phillips.


#14
elf

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Nitpicking but Wood was part of our U20 pool before Klinsy and Chandler was brought in by Bob Bradley.
 
And no doubt those other players have either contributed in great ways and/or are solid upcoming talent, but I disagree with the notion that any coach under the guidance of the USSF would not have found most of these guys and brought them in.  The history of the USMNT is littered with examples of guys like these being called up.


Wood would have not been called up since he was in a lesser german league. Green and zelalem could of held out for german national team.

#15
Father Ted

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Wood would have not been called up since he was in a lesser german league. Green and zelalem could of held out for german national team.

Johnson and Green yes.  But Boyd was called up by Rongen before Klinsmann and  Zelalem spent his formative years in DC and probably would have played with the US irregardless of Klinsmann.






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