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Voice of Reason II

Member Since 25 May 2005
Offline Last Active Dec 27 2023 10:35 PM

#1156010 FIRE Petke

Posted by Voice of Reason II on 13 March 2013 - 03:17 PM

You're kidding. The "FIre ______!" thread is tradition. It's exactly what you described, a thread which generally houses the grievances and criticisms of the current boss.

I am having fun, but since you brought it up, traditions are not always a good thing. For example, we have a tradition of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. I wouldn't mind seeing that (and the immediate "Fire whomever" posts) go the way of the Dodo. :cheers:




#1155952 FIRE Petke

Posted by Voice of Reason II on 13 March 2013 - 12:33 PM

To be honest, this is a stupid thread because of its title. It forces people to take extreme positions. if it was titled something like "Things Petke needs to learn from his first few games" or " Things Petke needs to improve", we all could bellyache in a constructive way. Instead, it encourages posters to clash and turns the thread  into yet another intolerant sectarian struggle.

 

But this IS the internet, where little people try and make themselves large. So instead of "Bover is showing his youth, he needs to work on X, Y and Z if he hopes to retain his starting spot", we get "Bover, he did nothing. he is a piece of crap and should see nothing but the end of the bench."  The first promotes healthy debate, the latter promotes abrasive generalizations and soapbox rhetoric.

 

Unfortunately, as long as people can hide behind their keyboards, most healthy debates online tend to devolve into personal conflicts that often have little connection to the original topic.

 

It will ever be thus.

 

V.O.R. :pint:  




#1155857 Metro - Scum Game Thread

Posted by Voice of Reason II on 12 March 2013 - 08:08 PM

 

I have an Henry bobblehead in my office in front of me so... I must be a kid haha.

 

Does it shake its head when you make a mistake? :lol:




#1155837 FIRE Petke

Posted by Voice of Reason II on 12 March 2013 - 05:25 PM

Looks like a test to me...and he's teetering on the edge of not passing this one.

 

http://metrofanatic....rticle_id=33057

Who's testing him? You? Do you grade on the curve or pass/fail? <_<




#1155721 I want Conde back

Posted by Voice of Reason II on 12 March 2013 - 10:42 AM

The actual fuck up was terminating Conde's contract, since we HAD a viable LB and quality CB in him.

You want Conde back, I want two supermodels on my arms. Neither is going to happen. Deal with it. :(




#1155720 Metro - Scum Game Thread

Posted by Voice of Reason II on 12 March 2013 - 10:40 AM

Don't think it's a given that Petke benches Miller as much as it hurts me to say... Comes off as reactionary.  Plus, all his quotes today say things to the effect of "It's not about just Roy Miller."  Well, it's tough to say "It's not about Roy Miller" and then bench him.

 

 

Either way, if he is finally benched I'd like to see what Petke does at that position.

Petke's right. It was only 97% Miller.




#1155320 Metro - Quakes Game Thread

Posted by Voice of Reason II on 10 March 2013 - 11:16 PM

As I write this it says below, "161 users are reading this". My guess is that what it really means is 161 users are puking right now. :angry:




#1154595 Kassel, again

Posted by Voice of Reason II on 08 March 2013 - 12:51 PM

Is it the head coach's job to scout talent and develop young players? Are those not the GM and Reserves Coach responsibilities?

Are you seriously saying this? I said he lacked interest in DEVELOPING players. Fine that Hans did not appreciate the need to have a familiarity with the college talent pool when he first joined MLS, he wouldn't be the first to not understand it at the beginning of his tenure, but even a fool would have learned by the end of the first year, or at most by the end of the second year, that to thrive in MLS required you to use that source of low cost talent. While I don't expect every head coach to dedicate mountains of time to this, but I'd be surprised if Bruce and Dom and some of the others didn't catch the occaisional college game when they could, watch a few films in their spare time, and most importantly, actually listen to their dedicated scouts.

 

This is the guy who couldn't even be bothered to watch his own reserves in actual game situations to see who might earn a look at the first team.

 

And yes, a good coach should develop players. They may offload the bulk of the actual training to an assistant, but to have your players develop you have to want to have them developed, so you have to be involved. That means knowing what they need to develop, communicating that, and then seeing that they get help if that is necessary. 

 

This is a feeder league and a lot of player development is required. If you want to succeed in MLS you might have to do some things you don't have to do in the EPL. Hans was too lazy or too arrogant or too aloof to get off of his high horse and see that it was done. He failed his team, his superiors and the club's fans, and ultimately he failed himself and got tthe ignominious dismissal he deserved.

 

I can't believe you are still defending his player management.

 

In my business we have a name for someone like Hans, he's an Empty Suit. He just did not work hard, it shows.




#1154486 Kassel, again

Posted by Voice of Reason II on 07 March 2013 - 03:12 PM

Dax McCarty is an awful, awful example. He was a proven MLS veteran and captain of DC when we traded for him. He was already established, was a vital player in Dallas in 2010 for a team that went to the cup final, had been in USMNT camps, and was a potential all-star.

The point Kassel is making is that he never got a chance to become the next Dax McCarty (well, the next Sacha Kljestan, really). I agree that it doesn't help anyone to whine about it, there's a more professional way to make the statement he's making, but it's a valid point. The Americans that could start right away were kept by Backe, though even they fought for time behind the likes of Solli, Ballouchy and Miller, etc. The ones who needed more time were historically (pre-RB even) thrown away by this team. Some didn't have it. Some do. Guys like Ricardo Clark, Brad Davis, Eddie Gaven, even Eric Brunner.

Agudelo on the Nat'l team helped us get a tie in Russia. Surrounded by an awful team in Chivas, yes, he's pants. And he's too cocky. And he needs to work harder. But, under Petke, I think he'd be given a shot. Hertzog would be given a shot.

These are the three main goals for a successful MLS team:

- We should nourish and grow the domestic talent (having one of the best acadamies in the league is supposed to be a bonus)

- We should limit roster and head coaching turn over, and give people time to develop into a consistent, winning team

-  We should bring in non-American players with MLS experience, instead of just random foreigners with Henry-type players being an exception, instead of Salou Ibrahim and Ernst Oebster being the rule

So, if you are saying "well, Conor Chinn didn't make it, so, Matt Kassel wouldn't either", you are (a) missing the point and (b) making a really poor argument.

There reason why people say that more Americans should be given a real chance isn't xenophobia. It's because successful MLS teams are built on consistent rosters of American or American-based players. We beat an RSL team in 2008 that was young and coming together. Over the next few years, they'd keep the same roster of Americans and foreigners, let them grow, and they turned into a title winning team. Meanwhile...how many of our 2008 players were on our team by mid-2010? They took Beckerman, Borchers, Rimando, Williams and added in Espindola, Morales, Saborio, Olave, and the team turned out great. It wasn't all academy kids, but it is an example of how to do it. We are an example of how not to do it, as evidenced by our silverware in the last 18 years.

Taylor Twellman on seeingred just said this same thing, that they went to 4 MLS cups (knocking us out along the way) by having a core of Twellman, Duece, Matt Reis, Steve Ralston and Pat Noonan, together, year after year. Ditto Houston under Kinnear. Olave just echoed those comments in talking about the defense needing time to gel, as did Petke earlier in the off-season.

So, that fact that people are even arguing this is embarassing, and it shows a desire to defend our team even when it makes mistakes instead of just admitting the successes and faults evenly; it makes you sound like Dick Cheney defending invading Iraq after we knew there were no WMDs there.

Kassel did not deserve to walk right into the starting lineup. We didn't owe him that. What we owed him to a degree, but more importantly owned the club & its fans, is to give the kid a chance to see what he could turn into. That chance isn't 3 sub appearances and a spot behind Medhi Ballouchy on the bench. It's a chance like Luis Gil is getting in RSL, to spend multiple years in a system, growing all of the time, and being given challenges. If you overcome them and grow, you stay and become an MLS starter. If not, you will eventually get sent out. That is the way the best clubs are run. That is why Mike Magee is getting hat tricks in LA, and we're looking at a roster with 10+ new players each year.

Backe thought he didn't have an obligation to those kids, because he wanted to win now. Which is fine if you do win now, it's how the Yankees have worked for years. Only, we never won in the playoffs, and we also lost opportunities to become a consistent, winning team like RSL, LA/HOU now, or NE previously. We saw the MLS blueprint for success, and we ignore it. It's why Gallego wouldn't sign with the team, even though he was a top academy prospect and a youth INTL. He's the kind of kid who should be starting on our team 3-4 years from now.

So, let's not bang on in ignorance, knocking down straw men and throwing every failed example like Irving Garcia around. No one said Kassel, or Garcia, or Chinn was going to be Leo Messi.  The proof of the winning system we've been creating lo these many years is in the trophy cabinet, and it's fking empty.

I'm glad Petke & Roxbrough are looking to change that system. Every Matt Kassel won't work out. But if we don't groom them properly, none of them will.

I share your sentiments, but it's not as easy as that. If you want to cut down on turnover then you have to be ready to live with what you have for the season. Are people ready to hang onto everyone this season, even Miller? Yeah, add a player or two if we have the space, but not get itchy on the trigger? This fanbase has never been willing to be patient enough to break the cycle. Season's just starting and there is already a "Digao should go" thread and a timely reminder by posting a "Top Ten Worst Brazlian" list. All fun and games of course, but this club doesn't do patience. If you say "give Digao a chance" or better yet as i did "give the team a chance",  you are labeled a crackpot or an apologist.

 

Why give Digao a chance, he is one of our 10 worst? Why give Kassel a chance, he did squat when we played him? Why keep Cahill, he's a goalscorer and he hasn't scored goals? You get the picture...

 

People should stop thinking about the Cup this year and concentrate on finishing the year on the kind of strength that gives you hope for the future. Then, maybe the Cup will actually be in our future. I don't see it, though. We'll be coughing up Magees and Gavens to other clubs for years to come.

 

But of course it is not really us that needs to have learned that lesson, has Petke learned it and can he convince Roxburgh and de Bontin as well? Someone is smart enough to question whether or not we should be mortgaging our future on yet another aging DP (Kaka), if the scuttlebutt is to be believed. Someone is at least trying to reexamine our heretofore failed model.

 

I'm with you..., but I am afraid there aren't many.




#1154441 It bears repeating...

Posted by Voice of Reason II on 07 March 2013 - 11:29 AM

After the Tsunami of negativity these past few days where almost all of our players and coaches have received multiple negative comments (with some posters I can't recall a single player they DO like), I thought I would repost what I wrote back in early January:

 

 

 

Even if we were to hire the best, most saavy MLS-knowledgable coach there is, he would be inheriting a team with so many new faces that it will likely take awhile to establish the necessary chemistry.

 

Has everyone forgotten already? We are supposed to suck right now. New , untested coach named with a short preseason already kicking in with a majority of new players, many of which still waiting for the ink on their contracts to dry? Combine that with the fact that the key components of the squad were assembled before the team had an identifiable leader and style, and just what do you expect? I expect a ton of mistakes from both Mike's inexperience and the players' lack of understanding of each other. Heck, even in our last preseason game we were still trialling CB combos.

 

This team has no right to be ranked high in the East right now. They are really only a team in the technical sense of the term. In reality they are still a long way from playing as a cohesive unit.

 

I have assumed the first third of the season is a writeoff. Not that they won't win some points, but I think it will take at least that long, if not even longer, to find out what kind of team we have and where it can go. The answer we receive at that point may be that there is more team building to go (likely outcome), but at least then we will be making judgements based on a more established group.

 

What our history says is that we hit the panic button waaaaay too early and never give the building process time to work. We are always moving players in and out with such regularity that team chemistry is as rare as our trophies.

 

Give this team time. That doesn't mean that all of the current squad will measure up, in fact it is possible that we could find more than we would wish for to be lacking, but I can assure you that it will be very hard to judge any of these players true worth right now. Right now their lack of institutional understanding is creating a situation where they are making each other look worse. Let's hope that they will stay focused enough and work hard enough to get to where the good play of one will make the others around them look better. That is the difference between a good team and a collection of talented players. If you can't play as an organized unit, the best talent in the world gets diluted.

 

Your best education comes from mistakes. Let them make them now, and if Houllier, De Bontin and Roxburgh can accept that right now, then the team will learn from their tribulations and get better.

 

As Michael Jordan said, talent wins games, teamwork wins trophies. Give them time.

 

 




#1153280 RBNY vs Timbers Game Thread

Posted by Voice of Reason II on 03 March 2013 - 01:43 PM

you know what i mean mister!

:P




#1153012 RBNY vs Timbers Game Thread

Posted by Voice of Reason II on 01 March 2013 - 02:26 PM

As mentioned earlier, the match notes usually just list the previous games starting lineup as the likely starters.  Theer is no way that Pearce and Holgersson are both on the bench.

I posted the other day that I thought we would see this:

 

             Robles

Kimura Olave Pearce Miller

  Juninho McCarty Cahill

  Bover Espindola Henry

 

Still think we will see those bodies, but not sure exactly how they will line up at anyone moment other than the back four.

 

I admit the Digao listing through me for a loop, but the expalnation that it was likely just a carryover from the last game's starters makes sense.




#1152826 Random Player Name Thread 2012-13

Posted by Voice of Reason II on 28 February 2013 - 02:42 PM

With Kaka, keep your eye on the chimney at RBNY HQ. If it is white smoke coming out, he is ours, if black smoke, he's not coming. :lol:




#1152749 Random Player Name Thread 2012-13

Posted by Voice of Reason II on 28 February 2013 - 10:49 AM

 

He'd have to go through the allocation order, where do we currently stand on that?  If we're high enough maybe but Bedoya has publicly said that the allocation draft is one of the biggest reasons he doesn't want to come to MLS.

Which is his way of letting MLS know that if they want him, they have to gin up a trade to get the team or teams he would be willing to play for in the correct position. He put the ball in Garber's court.

 

Where there is a will, there is a way.




#1152725 Night at the Roxbury vs. EMoney

Posted by Voice of Reason II on 28 February 2013 - 09:43 AM

Early thoughts on Roxburgh? How do you compare / contrast him w/ Soler?

Roxburgh is humble, hardworking and professional.

 

Roxburgh doesn't have to prove himeself, Soler had to. It shows in how they approached the job, one building a solid foundation, the other trying to win it all fast.