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#31
UncleLTrain

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The bet does not include a proxy attack.

It has to be a known US operation in Venezuela.

If Steve said Russia and Georgia, he'd already be smoking his Camels.


There are some pretty hot Georgian girls.

#32
theredmenace

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The proxy war against Venezuela has already begun.

Not Israel.

Not Colombia.

But specially trained, US, Black Ops, undercover, CIA.....

vampire bats.
Upsetting Shorts: Funny, so you don't have to. SEASON 2 BEGINS! NEW EPISODE JULY 2nd!!!

Eleazar: "Tim = wise man"

#33
SteveB2

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During WW2 the United States planned on dropping bats on Japan as a psych war operation. The problem is that the bats froze to death in unpressurized bomb bays and cargo hatches.
History repeats?

Stay tuned, more shall be revealed.

#34
theredmenace

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During WW2 the United States planned on dropping bats on Japan as a psych war operation. The problem is that the bats froze to death in unpressurized bomb bays and cargo hatches.
History repeats?

Stay tuned, more shall be revealed.


Not a total loss though. If I walked outside and the streets were littered with frozen bat carcasses, I'd be terrified.
Upsetting Shorts: Funny, so you don't have to. SEASON 2 BEGINS! NEW EPISODE JULY 2nd!!!

Eleazar: "Tim = wise man"

#35
JBigjake54

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"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly!"

We are good enough to beat the best teams, and bad enough to lose to the worst teams. 


#36
Matrim55

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As long as China needs Venezuela's oil we won't be setting foot in there.

And while it's true we send a lot of money and guns to Israel, let's not pretend it's all because those nasty Jewish lobbyists at AIPAC have each and every US elected official over a barrel. There are good reasons, economic, strategic and otherwise, for the US government to do what it can to help Israel avoid getting pushed into the sea.

#37
betoAYAK

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There are good reasons, economic, strategic and otherwise, for the US government to do what it can to help Israel avoid getting pushed into the sea.


define good
You're a fucking monkey.
QUOTE (NittanyMetros @ Mar 17 2011, 01:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It seems Philly fans have signed up on metrofanatic to vote for themselves (in 'What team do you hate more?') . No real fan of this team would vote anything other than DC.

#38
Matrim55

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define good

They're the one country in the region that has 75% of the world's oil supply that can be considered an ally.

They're one of two countries in the region that has a democratically elected president and parliament.

They are a country whose four closest geographical neighbors have the stated intention of "driving into the sea" based on religious and cultural differences.

Those are all good reasons.

#39
theredmenace

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They're the one country in the region that has 75% of the world's oil supply that can be considered an ally.


What about Saudi Arabia?

They are a country whose four closest geographical neighbors have the stated intention of "driving into the sea" based on religious and cultural differences.


For the record, Mahmoud Ahmedinejad's "wipe Israel off the map" comment is the result of a misinterpetation perpetuated by a media that salivates over any potential conflict, especially involving Israel. What he really said was more to the effect of hoping the Israeli regime would collapse.

Wikipedia Link
Upsetting Shorts: Funny, so you don't have to. SEASON 2 BEGINS! NEW EPISODE JULY 2nd!!!

Eleazar: "Tim = wise man"

#40
Matrim55

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What about Saudi Arabia?

Saudi Arabia is not an ally in any way, shape or form. As a matter of fact it's their government-sponsored madrassas that produce the bulk of the leadership amongst fundamentalist Islamic militant organizations. And there's a whole host of evidence that the government itself provides certain branches of those organizations with support that goes beyond "spiritual."

For the record, Mahmoud Ahmedinejad's "wipe Israel off the map" comment is the result of a misinterpetation perpetuated by a media that salivates over any potential conflict, especially involving Israel. What he really said was more to the effect of hoping the Israeli regime would collapse.

Wikipedia Link

Heh, I wasn't even specifically referring to Ahmadinejad. Even so, here's the translation from your Wiki-ized version of events:

He did say he hoped its regime, i.e., a Jewish-Zionist state occupying Jerusalem, would collapse.

What do you think the collapse of the Jewish-Zionist state would entail for the 6 million Jews who currently live in Israel? I'm pretty sure that a victorious, combined Islamic force would do more than politely invite them to leave. In fact I'd wager pretty strongly on a Crusades-style bloodbath. So calling for "an end to the Jewish-Zionist" regime is pretty much calling for mass slaughter of Jews because they're... Jews.

I'm confident in stating that because Hamas's stance, Syria's stance and Hezbollah's stance have not changed since 1948: Drive Israel into the sea and create a Palestinian caliphate from the River Jordan to the Med. "Throw the Jews into the sea!" was the battle cry in the 1967 war, and was also heard two years ago when Israel (illegally and immorally, I might add), invaded Lebanon. And sure, Jordan and Egypt are playing nice right now. But tip the scales the other way just enough and I doubt they'd be so into detente.

So yeah, being an apologist for Ahmadinejad isn't a great way to strengthen your argument. Muslim leaders in the region have consistently used calls for genocide as a way to distract their own peoples from how shitty their lives are, and in this instance he's no different.

But remember, they also call for war against the Jews because they really, really want to kill a lot of Jews. And when there's 1.5 billion of the first group, and 12 million of the second, I don't particularly mind us using what influence and means we have (within reason) to give the 12 million a fighting chance.

The result of us choosing to do otherwise would look remarkably like Darfur, in case you were wondering how Islamic theocracies tend to treat "inferior" populations.

#41
betoAYAK

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They're one of two countries in the region that has a democratically elected president and parliament.

They are a country whose four closest geographical neighbors have the stated intention of "driving into the sea" based on religious and cultural differences.



1st point, i guess the israeli form of apartheid on native palestinians is a-ok in your book? with your definition of israel, there was absolutely nothing wrong with south africa when the afrikaans ruled. ronald reagan would have been proud.

2nd point, their aversion for the state of israel is not solely based on religious and cultural differences, thats not reading into the situation deeply enough and accepting the skewed pov of those in power. its fundamentally based on the fact that europeans (that happened to be jewish) came by the millions and occupied palestinian land by use of force, intimidation and terrorism (menachim begin, the stern gang, etc.) and have continued to use state terrorism to subjugate the masses of native people of the region in an eerily similar fashion that the nazis used on the jewish population during the 30's and 40's sans the final solution.

in that context, it is much more understandable on why the state affairs are what they are.
You're a fucking monkey.
QUOTE (NittanyMetros @ Mar 17 2011, 01:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It seems Philly fans have signed up on metrofanatic to vote for themselves (in 'What team do you hate more?') . No real fan of this team would vote anything other than DC.

#42
Matrim55

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1st point, i guess the israeli form of apartheid on native palestinians is a-ok in your book? with your definition of israel, there was absolutely nothing wrong with south africa when the afrikaans ruled. ronald reagan would have been proud.

What a ridiculous comparison. You should punch your poli-sci professor in the face for leaving you so ignorant of the nature of South African apartheid.

Did you know that of the 950,000 Arabs in Israel as of 1948, all but 150k fled? I bet you didn't, so let me enlighten you: These folks left their homes and their lives behind when Israel was exactly one day old. They did so because they were urged to do so by Syria, Jordan and Egypt - all of whom were invading under the flag of "Death to the Jews." They weren't kicked out, they weren't forced out, they simply made the catastrophically stupid choice of leaving with the idea that they could soon return once all the Jews were exterminated.

2nd point, they're aversion for the state of israel is not solely based on religious and cultural differences, thats not reading into the situation deeply enough and accepting the skewed pov of those in power.

No, it's not solely based on religious and cultural differences, but it's mainly based upon that. Dismissing that is accepting the skewed pov of those with an agenda. Arabs were crying "death to the Jews" before Israel even existed.

its fundamentally based on the fact that europeans (that happened to be jewish) came by the millions and occupied palestinian land by use of force, intimidation and terrorism (menachim begin, the stern gang, etc.)

Fail. You don't know your history.

European Jewry began emigrating to Israel in large numbers a half century before Menachim Begin and the Stern gang. And at the time, "Palestine" wasn't even an Arab state: It was the smallest damn region in the Turkish Ottoman Empire, and had been for nearly 700 years. Saying it belonged to the Arabs at that time is akin to saying that England belongs to the Anglo-Saxons.

By the time the Balfour Declaration came around, trans-Jordan Palestine had become a British protectorate. There were roughly 300,000 Jews there at the time, and about 950k Arabs. The declaration proposed, and 30 years later implemented, a split of the land: What we know today as Israel would be for the Jews while Jordan, Gaza, the West Bank and the Golan Heights would go to the Arabs.

Now, in the interim you are absolutely correct that Jewish extremists indulged in organized terror campaigns against both pro-Arab Brits and portions of the Arab populace. Of course at the same time, Arab extremists were doing the same. This is not meant to excuse either side for their actions, but the picture you tried (and failed miserably to paint) is horribly one-sided.

and have continued to use state terrorism to subjugate the masses of native people of the region in an eerily similar fashion that the nazis used on the jewish population during the 30's and 40's sans the final solution.

Once you're done punching your poli-sci professor in the face, you should go punch your history professor in the face as well. There's no excuse for this ignorance.

Israel is 25% Arab and Druze. Germany's Jewish population was never close to that percentage. Second, while there has been much wailing and gnashing of teeth amongst the Likudniks, Arab muslims now have elected, officially recognized representation in the Knesset. Third, Arabs are allowed to hold any job in Israeli society and aren't barred from attending university. And finally, muslim Arabs have been allowed to join the IDF since the 1960s. How many Jews did you you think served in the SS?

As for Israeli treatment of "Palestine" and Palestinians it is not an appropriate comparison.

"Palestine" is nominally the Golan Heights, Gaza Strip and West Bank. At the time of the 1967 war, the Golan was part of Syria; the West Bank part of Jordan and the Gaza Strip part of Egypt. All three of those countries invaded Israel; all three lost. Well, when you lose wars, including wars you start, you tend to lose land.

And as a matter of fact is they lost more than just those three places, as Israel after the war also had control of the entire Sinai Peninsula. Then they rather nicely gave it back.

I don't recall Hitler giving back the Sudetenland, fwiw.

Anyway, that brings up the problem of Palestinians - Arabs who live in either the Golan Heights, Gaza Strip or West Bank. They're not considered Israeli citizens, which is understandable, but they do have an elected government. For years that government was Yassir Arafat's Fatah movement, which was dedicated to a) creating a homeland for the Palestinian people and b) driving the Jews into the sea. Israel chose to negotiate with Fatah, though never officially recognize them as a legitimate country.

I'll bet, at this point, you're dying to know why that is, so I'll tell you:

The moment Palestine becomes an official country their populace will demand the government declare war on Israel and secure the "right of return" through violence. Israel's leaders know that - hell, anybody with two functioning brain cells to rub together knows that - and as such, we've got no official Palestine. Because if Palestine existed as a legitimate country, and that legitimate country declared war on another legitimate country, in this case Israel, then you'd have a real shootin' war and we'd end up right back at square one.

in that context, it is much more understandable on why the state affairs are what they are.

Your context is false and your understanding juvenile.

Fact is what are now Israel and Jordan were neither a Jewish nor an Arab state since the 12th century. It was a Turkish district that included both Jews and Arabs, and neither had a more legitimate claim than the other. In the last 100 years the landscape changed, the Jews established a homeland, and almost the entire Arab world declared war on them for it.

I have a pretty good perspective on the history of the region, being Arab and all.

Oh, and just so you know, you condemned the Jewish minority for using terror tactics in the 1940s while more or less condoning the likes of Hamas and Hezbollah for doing damn near the exact same thing. It's called cognitive dissonance and it's the product of a sloppy, disorganized mind. Israel has its problems in regard to human rights, real, legitimate ones that are only obscured when uneducated folks like yourself make unsustainable, amoral statements like those above.

So bring your weak ass "Israel is South Africa!" or "Israel is Nazi Germany!" shit elsewhere. Or better yet, bury it forever.

#43
drmetromet

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Matrim congrats you have said in the last number of posts what I have been telling people for years. Im happy to see people agree with me.. :cheers:

#44
betoAYAK

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What a ridiculous comparison. You should punch your poli-sci professor in the face for leaving you so ignorant of the nature of South African apartheid.

Did you know that of the 950,000 Arabs in Israel as of 1948, all but 150k fled? I bet you didn't, so let me enlighten you: These folks left their homes and their lives behind when Israel was exactly one day old. They did so because they were urged to do so by Syria, Jordan and Egypt - all of whom were invading under the flag of "Death to the Jews." They weren't kicked out, they weren't forced out, they simply made the catastrophically stupid choice of leaving with the idea that they could soon return once all the Jews were exterminated.


No, it's not solely based on religious and cultural differences, but it's mainly based upon that. Dismissing that is accepting the skewed pov of those with an agenda. Arabs were crying "death to the Jews" before Israel even existed.


Fail. You don't know your history.

European Jewry began emigrating to Israel in large numbers a half century before Menachim Begin and the Stern gang. And at the time, "Palestine" wasn't even an Arab state: It was the smallest damn region in the Turkish Ottoman Empire, and had been for nearly 700 years. Saying it belonged to the Arabs at that time is akin to saying that England belongs to the Anglo-Saxons.

By the time the Balfour Declaration came around, trans-Jordan Palestine had become a British protectorate. There were roughly 300,000 Jews there at the time, and about 950k Arabs. The declaration proposed, and 30 years later implemented, a split of the land: What we know today as Israel would be for the Jews while Jordan, Gaza, the West Bank and the Golan Heights would go to the Arabs.

Now, in the interim you are absolutely correct that Jewish extremists indulged in organized terror campaigns against both pro-Arab Brits and portions of the Arab populace. Of course at the same time, Arab extremists were doing the same. This is not meant to excuse either side for their actions, but the picture you tried (and failed miserably to paint) is horribly one-sided.


Once you're done punching your poli-sci professor in the face, you should go punch your history professor in the face as well. There's no excuse for this ignorance.

Israel is 25% Arab and Druze. Germany's Jewish population was never close to that percentage. Second, while there has been much wailing and gnashing of teeth amongst the Likudniks, Arab muslims now have elected, officially recognized representation in the Knesset. Third, Arabs are allowed to hold any job in Israeli society and aren't barred from attending university. And finally, muslim Arabs have been allowed to join the IDF since the 1960s. How many Jews did you you think served in the SS?

As for Israeli treatment of "Palestine" and Palestinians it is not an appropriate comparison.

"Palestine" is nominally the Golan Heights, Gaza Strip and West Bank. At the time of the 1967 war, the Golan was part of Syria; the West Bank part of Jordan and the Gaza Strip part of Egypt. All three of those countries invaded Israel; all three lost. Well, when you lose wars, including wars you start, you tend to lose land.

And as a matter of fact is they lost more than just those three places, as Israel after the war also had control of the entire Sinai Peninsula. Then they rather nicely gave it back.

I don't recall Hitler giving back the Sudetenland, fwiw.

Anyway, that brings up the problem of Palestinians - Arabs who live in either the Golan Heights, Gaza Strip or West Bank. They're not considered Israeli citizens, which is understandable, but they do have an elected government. For years that government was Yassir Arafat's Fatah movement, which was dedicated to a) creating a homeland for the Palestinian people and b) driving the Jews into the sea. Israel chose to negotiate with Fatah, though never officially recognize them as a legitimate country.

I'll bet, at this point, you're dying to know why that is, so I'll tell you:

The moment Palestine becomes an official country their populace will demand the government declare war on Israel and secure the "right of return" through violence. Israel's leaders know that - hell, anybody with two functioning brain cells to rub together knows that - and as such, we've got no official Palestine. Because if Palestine existed as a legitimate country, and that legitimate country declared war on another legitimate country, in this case Israel, then you'd have a real shootin' war and we'd end up right back at square one.


Your context is false and your understanding juvenile.

Fact is what are now Israel and Jordan were neither a Jewish nor an Arab state since the 12th century. It was a Turkish district that included both Jews and Arabs, and neither had a more legitimate claim than the other. In the last 100 years the landscape changed, the Jews established a homeland, and almost the entire Arab world declared war on them for it.

I have a pretty good perspective on the history of the region, being Arab and all.

Oh, and just so you know, you condemned the Jewish minority for using terror tactics in the 1940s while more or less condoning the likes of Hamas and Hezbollah for doing damn near the exact same thing. It's called cognitive dissonance and it's the product of a sloppy, disorganized mind. Israel has its problems in regard to human rights, real, legitimate ones that are only obscured when uneducated folks like yourself make unsustainable, amoral statements like those above.

So bring your weak ass "Israel is South Africa!" or "Israel is Nazi Germany!" shit elsewhere. Or better yet, bury it forever.

no way do i have the time nor inclination to go point for point on all that lol. you infered alot on things i never posted. for example i never said palestine was a jewish or arab state. i didnt even call it a state. i didnt more or less condone the likes of hamas and hezbollah. i didnt even mention anything about them at all. i also didnt dismiss the thing about religious hatred, but religious hatred is symptom of the disease, not the disease itself.

whats with all the 'better than thou' bullshit, man? i do know about arab israeli conscripts so you being an arab (which doesnt mean much) should know that arabs have PLENTY of beef with some neighboring arab tribes no different than how it goes down in europe with white people, i do know about the superficial concessions that euro-israeli's have doled out to the arab israeli population. that doesnt mean palestinian arabs arent treated like second-class citizens. what obcures 'the problems in regard to human rights' in israel is people downplaying and whitewashing the abuse of might and power by the state of israel on innocent people. violence begets violence...

about the present day situation, if you didnt know israel isnt using apartheidesque tactics to collectively punish palestinians while disobeying multiple UN sanctions from using illegal tank shells on civilians to bulldozing homes of countless innocent people to ghettoizing entire neighborhoods to the point that people cant go to work, school, or even the hospital without being stopped and grilled by hostile teenage conscripts then a) you needs to do some learnin or b) you believe in the ends justifying the means which is some foul shit.
You're a fucking monkey.
QUOTE (NittanyMetros @ Mar 17 2011, 01:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It seems Philly fans have signed up on metrofanatic to vote for themselves (in 'What team do you hate more?') . No real fan of this team would vote anything other than DC.

#45
drmetromet

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no way do i have the time nor inclination to go point for point on all that lol. you infered alot on things i never posted. for example i never said palestine was a jewish or arab state. i didnt even call it a state. i didnt more or less condone the likes of hamas and hezbollah. i didnt even mention anything about them at all.

whats with all the 'better than thou' bullshit, man? i do know about arab israeli conscripts, i do know about the superficial concessions that euro-israeli's have doled out to the arab israeli population. that doesnt mean palestinian arabs arent treated like second-class citizens. what obcures 'the problems in regard to human rights' in israel is people downplaying and whitewashing the abuse of might and power by the state of israel on innocent people. violence begets violence...

about the present day situation, if you didnt know israel isnt using apartheidesque tactics to collectively punish palestinians while disobeying multiple UN sanctions from using illegal tank shells on civilians to bulldozing homes of countless innocent people to ghettoizing entire neighborhoods to the point that people cant go to work, school, or even the hospital without being stopped and grilled by hostile teenage conscripts then a) you needs to do some learnin or b) you believe in the ends justifying the means which is some foul shit.


Wow man your either ignorant or an anti Semite. There is no South African apartheid going on in Israel. Anyone with half a brain knows Jews didnt even spend 24 hours in Israel without Arab nations trying to "push us into the sea". Then 20 something years later we took on twenty three arab nations and beat them all in 6 days. Bring on Iran and see how long it takes us to destroy that ass of a nation.




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