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Let's discuss the Dax trade again


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#16
Borats

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If you look at this trade on paper only (discounting intangibles like age, trading away a fan favorite, captain, and crucial leader, opening up playing time for Adams and Davis, etc.), the trade looked halfway decent when it went down -- because $400,000 of general allocation money smacked of being a huge amount of $$$ at the time.
 
A year later, my take is that this trade has got to be considered one of the most lopsided in league history.
 
A few weeks after the Dax trade, Kevin Molino was dealt from Orlando to Minnesota for $650,000 in total allocation ($450k in general allocation, $200k in targeted allocation). Then you've got the Dwyer trade: $1,600,000 in total allocation money ($400k in general, $500k in targeted, and $700k in future allocation based on performance). For the rest of 2017, Ethan Finlay, who wasn't even a starter for the Crew at the time of the trade, was dealt to Minnesota for $425,000 (with just 1 goal and 1 assist to his name in 19 games that season). Then LA received $500,000 in allocation money from the Scum for the rights to Paul Arriola ($300k in general, $200k in targeted). And last, KC got $400,000 in allocation money from the Revs for the rights to Krisztian Nemeth ($200k in general, $200k in targeted).
 
Now we're hearing we got Parker from Vancouver for Felipe, $500,000 in targeted allocation, AND an international roster spot for 2018...
 

That $400,000 is looking like chump change now.

 


If you need a refresher on the difference between general allocation and targeted allocation money (like I did), see below:
 
General allocation money must be used within 30 days of the close of the third full MLS transfer window after it was acquired. If a quantity of general allocation money is not used within that timeframe, it is halved by the league. That halved amount is then available for use during the next two transfer windows. If it is still not used after those transfer windows, the quantity is no longer available for use.
Targeted allocation money can be used in several ways:

  • Sign new or re-sign existing players whose salary and acquisition costs are more than the maximum salary budget charge ($504,375 in 2018) up to $1.5 million.
  • Convert a Designated Player to a non-Designated Player by buying down his salary budget charge to below the maximum salary budget charge provided the club then signs a new Designated Player at an investment equal to or greater than the player he is replacing.
  • Sign new homegrown players to their first MLS contract using up to $200,000 of targeted allocation money.
  • Trade league-funded targeted allocation money to another team.

Targeted allocation money must be applied, if not necessarily used, within four MLS transfer windows of its acquisition. In this case, “applied” does not mean a team actually has to use the amount within four windows. Rather, they merely have to notify the league of how they plan on using their expiring targeted allocation money – allocating a specific amount to a specific player – in the following window by the end of the fourth window after it was acquired. If they do not do that, that amount expires.

Let me rephrase: we gave up Dax, top 3 player in his position in MLS, and top 3 player overall for the team that got him (turned to be #3 in the East in reg season from the absolute worst), 29 years old at the time of the trade, for practically nothing. Water under the bridge - sure. But let's not pretend we didn't fail miserably on this one. Especially in light of the trades we made this year, where the same FO actually showed it is possible to get some good value for players of Dax's caliber (like Parker for Felipe).



#17
Indyanapolis

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I hate to agree with Borats, but yeah, the Dax trade was complete dogshit.

Whats done is done, so theres really no use in rehashing all of that, but given the trades that came afterwards, Dax was for pennies.
Frankly, since I am merely a fan and a not a fancy American soccer writer, I'm going to congratulate Wright-Phillips on a well hit goal. If I was an American soccer writer, I'd claim that the recently retired Henry was wearing an invisibility cloak and carried the ball into the net for the obviously unskilled Wright-Phillips.

If you scan YouTube looking for Bradley Wright-Phillips, youll find numerous goal compilations, a few interviews and, eventually, an excerpt from the grime mixtape series Lord of the Mics.

#18
Eleazar

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Ah, relitigating this?

 

Lemme know when Human Resources gets involved. 


RIP Guillermo Romulo, Alexander Francis Orig and Celenio Eleazar.

 

RIP Cesar Castello and Mike Vallo

 

"Metro..."

 


#19
regulator

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GAM (which we received from the Dax trade) is worth more than TAM (which we gave up in the Parker trade)

#20
defendyourself

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If you look at this trade on paper only (discounting intangibles like age, trading away a fan favorite, captain, and crucial leader, opening up playing time for Adams and Davis, etc.), the trade looked halfway decent when it went down -- because $400,000 of general allocation money smacked of being a huge amount of $$$ at the time.
 
A year later, my take is that this trade has got to be considered one of the most lopsided in league history.
 
A few weeks after the Dax trade, Kevin Molino was dealt from Orlando to Minnesota for $650,000 in total allocation ($450k in general allocation, $200k in targeted allocation). Then you've got the Dwyer trade: $1,600,000 in total allocation money ($400k in general, $500k in targeted, and $700k in future allocation based on performance). For the rest of 2017, Ethan Finlay, who wasn't even a starter for the Crew at the time of the trade, was dealt to Minnesota for $425,000 [mostly TAM] (with just 1 goal and 1 assist to his name in 19 games that season). Then LA received $500,000 in allocation money from the Scum for the rights to Paul Arriola ($300k in general, $200k in targeted). And last, KC got $400,000 in allocation money from the Revs for the rights to Krisztian Nemeth ($200k in general, $200k in targeted).
 
Now we're hearing we got Parker from Vancouver for Felipe, $500,000 in targeted allocation, AND an international roster spot for 2018...
 

That $400,000 is looking like chump change now.

 


If you need a refresher on the difference between general allocation and targeted allocation money (like I did), see below:
 
General allocation money must be used within 30 days of the close of the third full MLS transfer window after it was acquired. If a quantity of general allocation money is not used within that timeframe, it is halved by the league. That halved amount is then available for use during the next two transfer windows. If it is still not used after those transfer windows, the quantity is no longer available for use.
Targeted allocation money can be used in several ways:

  • Sign new or re-sign existing players whose salary and acquisition costs are more than the maximum salary budget charge ($504,375 in 2018) up to $1.5 million.
  • Convert a Designated Player to a non-Designated Player by buying down his salary budget charge to below the maximum salary budget charge provided the club then signs a new Designated Player at an investment equal to or greater than the player he is replacing.
  • Sign new homegrown players to their first MLS contract using up to $200,000 of targeted allocation money.
  • Trade league-funded targeted allocation money to another team.

Targeted allocation money must be applied, if not necessarily used, within four MLS transfer windows of its acquisition. In this case, “applied” does not mean a team actually has to use the amount within four windows. Rather, they merely have to notify the league of how they plan on using their expiring targeted allocation money – allocating a specific amount to a specific player – in the following window by the end of the fourth window after it was acquired. If they do not do that, that amount expires.

good summary of the changing landscape for the most part.  Only thing, (I may be the odd one out with this view), I try not to judge moves solely based on the outcome, but instead look at it based on the info management had at the time.  Like you said at the time the transfer went down, allocation received for Dax was I think 2nd all time in a transfer. 

 

However, because MLS changes rules like people change underwear the league added $26.4 million of targeted allocation money to the overall playing budget per year last year, and then added an additional $61.6 million in allocation money per year in discretionary TAM (total of $88 million).  For reference all the salary cap figures combined in the league set the player budget @ $89.1 million so they essentially doubled the cap.  Looking back at it now, sure it looks low but you could say the same thing with transfer fees around the world, where Neymar's fee makes Pogba's fee look affordable now.  The rule uncertainty is probably why Red Bull tries to get players back in all the trades now, and we all prefer those one anyway.  

But if it makes everyone feel better in hindsight we didn't maximize the Dax trade, but for every Dax trade we have found a Kemar or a Grella on a super cheap deal so management hasn't done a miserable job of late.  Nonetheless I am happy with our team/roster so I don't really care how they got there. 

Another thing I re-learned from reading this though is how dumb Minnesota is. Man they are dreadfully stupid.



#21
McSoccer

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Why? I feel like we really have been had in that trade. Care to elaborate what's so dumb about it or you are just spewing insults without offering anything of value?

Go back and look at what written on the Dax trade.  It was considered a large amount at the time.  Numbers went much higher quickly afterwards, but the $400 was nothing to sneeze at.

 

Also, you are neglecting the age (younger players go for more) and position (attacking players go for more) of a lot of the players that went for more AND the fact that there is more TAM now than there was last year.

 

We didn't get a lot for Dax or Sacha compared to some of the other deals that have happened around the same time, but they are also two of the oldest players in these recent trades.  Why are teams going to trade a lot for a guy that will only be there two, maybe three seasons and probably get worse each of those years?

 

You want to say we could have gotten more, that's fair.  I think saying it was a "brutal rape" is idiotic.



#22
Koko

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We will have to wait and see.

#23
ElTriMetro

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Yes... Let us discuss the Dax trade....

 

It was a great trade for our club. We got rid of dead weight and made our team faster and younger in the midfield.. Loved it then... Love it even more, now.



"Red Bull on the pitch - Metro in our hearts."

 

#RedBullOut

 

 


#24
sabremike

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Yes... Let us discuss the Dax trade....
 
It was a great trade for our club. We got rid of dead weight and made our team faster and younger in the midfield.. Loved it then... Love it even more, now.


You can make a reasoned argument as to why the trade should've been made. Calling Dax "dead weight" is just sheer lunacy.
Let's Go Buffalo!!!

#25
Komba

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Really don't understand why players get so overvalued once they leave. Happened with Sam even though he was clearly finished, happened with Dax who is good player, but nowhere near a top player in this league. He's a very good ball winner and makes a good first pass. He's not as good of a leader as some suggest. His body language sucks and that stuff is contagious. I watched that first Chicago game and it couldn't be on a better display. The funny part is some people still try to defend how good Dax is while the team made it exactly as far as they did WITH Dax. What's more amazing about that is that they did it with Sacha being half the player he was and their top CB Collin being hurt for the entire season.

Then the overvaluing happened with Sacha. He's a case where I don't understand how anyone can watch the guy over the full season last year and not have realized that he's athletically finished. And Sacha was my favorite player but it was just painfully obvious that he lost a significant step. Then it was about how Felipe was irreplaceable. Felipe was a nice player who did a good job and stayed extremely healthy, but we gave up a solid piece to get a really, really good young piece. Felipe is the only player we've lost who will continue to be a good player in this league for a few years. But we got Tim Parker so you have to do that trade every time.

Something else that's happening with the league in general is that it's getting a lot better. A lot of long time good players are no longer as good because everyone they are playing is so much better. Guys like Sacha and Dax get hurt even more by this on top of their age. Even Dax isn't the fastest guy or great at covering ground. I'm fully expecting both of Orlando and Chicago to have down years. Chicago is old and lost their true best player in Accam. Now they are extremely slow all over the field. Orlando is trying to use Sacha in a spot that he can no longer move enough for so that won't work either. Kreis will lose his job so I wonder where the new coach will put Sacha.

#26
JayJeeMoNee

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Really don't understand why players get so overvalued once they leave. Happened with Sam even though he was clearly finished, happened with Dax who is good player, but nowhere near a top player in this league. He's a very good ball winner and makes a good first pass. He's not as good of a leader as some suggest. His body language sucks and that stuff is contagious. I watched that first Chicago game and it couldn't be on a better display. The funny part is some people still try to defend how good Dax is while the team made it exactly as far as they did WITH Dax. What's more amazing about that is that they did it with Sacha being half the player he was and their top CB Collin being hurt for the entire season.

Then the overvaluing happened with Sacha. He's a case where I don't understand how anyone can watch the guy over the full season last year and not have realized that he's athletically finished. And Sacha was my favorite player but it was just painfully obvious that he lost a significant step. Then it was about how Felipe was irreplaceable. Felipe was a nice player who did a good job and stayed extremely healthy, but we gave up a solid piece to get a really, really good young piece. Felipe is the only player we've lost who will continue to be a good player in this league for a few years. But we got Tim Parker so you have to do that trade every time.

 

Paragraph 1:  :blink:

 

Paragraph 2: I don't post too often anymore, but I'm on MF every day, and very few here called Felipe "irreplaceable." I'd say the majority agreed it was a tough but understandable decision with our center mid depth to upgrade the centerback position. As for over-valuing Sacha, most on this board were fine with seeing him go. The issue -- for me, at least -- is what we received in return.


#REDBULLOUT

 

(Formerly JonnyG)


"In church, they say that suffering is good for the soul. I like to view my love for this team as being a spiritual exercise." - Steve B2





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