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Davis' role


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#1
McSoccer

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More attack-minded and skilled than Davis, more developed than Etienne, but I'm not sure he's enough of either of those things to warrant signing him. Even as a band-aid for our attacking mid spot, this would be a pretty weak one.

Having not seen Davis play much, if at all, at CAM, do we know that?  And like you said, he wold be a pretty weak band-aid so I'd prefer to play the younger player with more upside in Etienne.  That's if the choice was between the two.  Obviously I'd rather sign a legit DP CAM.



#2
iced1776

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Having not seen Davis play much, if at all, at CAM, do we know that?  

 

I jumped off the Davis hype train and burned my ticket a long time ago, so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but regardless of where he's played in the midfield I don't think he's shown the skill set to succeed as a CAM. He's a "safety first" player, which is fine for a #6, not for #10. He's never shown the ability to pick out a creative, incisive, positive pass. He has never shown the ability to beat players on the dribble. He doesn't shoot any more often or more efficiently than our other guys. I think people saw his one goal against LA last year and hyped him up to be way more of an attacking threat than he actually is. 

 

One of the terms Matt Doyle throws around pretty often is a player's "gravitational pull". The best playmakers are threatening enough to make defenders move out of position to stop them, and skilled enough to play through that pressure to spring teammates who now have space to operate in. I put Davis in the same boat as Muyl - they have no gravitational pull because when given acres of space they still don't even attempt to make a dangerous play, so defenders barely have to pay attention to them.

 

Duka, for better or worse, at least tries shit.



#3
McSoccer

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I jumped off the Davis hype train and burned my ticket a long time ago, so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but regardless of where he's played in the midfield I don't think he's shown the skill set to succeed as a CAM. He's a "safety first" player, which is fine for a #6, not for #10. He's never shown the ability to pick out a creative, incisive, positive pass. He has never shown the ability to beat players on the dribble. He doesn't shoot any more often or more efficiently than our other guys. I think people saw his one goal against LA last year and hyped him up to be way more of an attacking threat than he actually is. 

 

One of the terms Matt Doyle throws around pretty often is a player's "gravitational pull". The best playmakers are threatening enough to make defenders move out of position to stop them, and skilled enough to play through that pressure to spring teammates who now have space to operate in. I put Davis in the same boat as Muyl - they have no gravitational pull because when given acres of space they still don't even attempt to make a dangerous play, so defenders barely have to pay attention to them.

 

Duka, for better or worse, at least tries shit.

Maybe Davis has been "safety first" because he's been deeper?  We blew some leads, but we played well with Davis in the lineup last season.  Most of his poor performances this season came in the 4-2-2-2 which I don't think is fair to judge anyone on.

 

I think gravitational pull is the problem with our ALL wingers.  Definitely the case with Muyl, but also with Grella.  Defenders have realized they just need to sit back against him and there's not much Mike can do anymore.



#4
iced1776

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Maybe Davis has been "safety first" because he's been deeper?  We blew some leads, but we played well with Davis in the lineup last season.  Most of his poor performances this season came in the 4-2-2-2 which I don't think is fair to judge anyone on.

 

To an extent maybe? Dax, Felipe, and Kljestan have all been able to at least show some creative distribution from that spot, I don't recall a whiff of it from Davis. Even last year with a few straight starts and the rest of the team flying high in the 4-2-3-1, he wasn't very involved in the build up and when he was, not in a meaningful way.

 

Davis isn't a bad player, I just don't see him developing into someone who has a major impact on the game. I'd be happy to eat my words and see him become a double digit assist guy, but for me putting him at CAM right now is the equivalent of throwing whatever we have against the wall and hoping something sticks. 



#5
McSoccer

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To an extent maybe? Dax, Felipe, and Kljestan have all been able to at least show some creative distribution from that spot, I don't recall a whiff of it from Davis. Even last year with a few straight starts and the rest of the team flying high in the 4-2-3-1, he wasn't very involved in the build up and when he was, not in a meaningful way.
 
Davis isn't a bad player, I just don't see him developing into someone who has a major impact on the game. I'd be happy to eat my words and see him become a double digit assist guy, but for me putting him at CAM right now is the equivalent of throwing whatever we have against the wall and hoping something sticks. 

In 2016, Davis had 2 goals & 3 assists in 1108 mins last year, Felipe 5 goals, 7 assists in 2898 mins, and Dax had 3 goals, 5 assists in 2268 mins. Those stats aren't really fair because Felipe & Dax do more defensively than Davis. But I think it shows Davis was as involved offensively as the other two last season.

To me Davis didn't look good to start the year. He was replacing Dax then, not substituting for him and we were in the 4-2-2-2.

I don't know what Davis, but we scored a lot of goals with him playing next to Felipe last year in the 4-2-3-1.

#6
defendyourself

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Davis is a box-to-box CM, not a CAM.  But I think he is a better pass in that role that Felipe, where Felipe is more of a ball carrier at his best.  Issue though is that he is not as effective carrying the ball this season, and Adams isn't much of a passer from deep yet (I don't mean long balls, but talking more about the ability to circulate the ball quickly to dangerous spots with short and intermediate passes) either so we have lost a lot in our buildup capabilities.  I think Felipe would be more effective carrying the ball if we had a better passer from deep next to him 

When Davis is playing with confidence he is a solid passer and very good ball striker.  Very good at crossing (for those who watched Sacha and co try to cross Saturday), so personally while not a world beater he could be useful here.  However now he is in Jesse's dog house atm.



#7
Koko

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Davis is a box-to-box CM, not a CAM.  But I think he is a better pass in that role that Felipe, where Felipe is more of a ball carrier at his best.  Issue though is that he is not as effective carrying the ball this season, and Adams isn't much of a passer from deep yet (I don't mean long balls, but talking more about the ability to circulate the ball quickly to dangerous spots with short and intermediate passes) either so we have lost a lot in our buildup capabilities.  I think Felipe would be more effective carrying the ball if we had a better passer from deep next to him 

When Davis is playing with confidence he is a solid passer and very good ball striker.  Very good at crossing (for those who watched Sacha and co try to cross Saturday), so personally while not a world beater he could be useful here.  However now he is in Jesse's dog house atm.

Spot on.  He's a #8 with zero confidence right now.  Why he played so deep and so safe at the start of this season is beyond me.  Maybe those were instructions from his coach...and if so they were wrong.  Or maybe he felt the pressure of filling Dax's shoes and crumbled.  Honestly I'm not sure which is worse.



#8
maxmini

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In 2016, Davis had 2 goals & 3 assists in 1108 mins last year, Felipe 5 goals, 7 assists in 2898 mins, and Dax had 3 goals, 5 assists in 2268 mins. Those stats aren't really fair because Felipe & Dax do more defensively than Davis. But I think it shows Davis was as involved offensively as the other two last season.

To me Davis didn't look good to start the year. He was replacing Dax then, not substituting for him and we were in the 4-2-2-2.

I don't know what Davis, but we scored a lot of goals with him playing next to Felipe last year in the 4-2-3-1.

The problem in a nutshell is that we are currently playing that 4-2-3-1 but with the same narrow breadth as we did in the 4-2-2-2.  We can score goals when we use the entire width of the field.  We do not have the talent to score with the narrow approach.  When Jessie gave up on the 4-2-2-2 earlier this year he went with a wide breadth and we scored.  He has lately been keeping everyone close for weeks and it does not work, although he will not give up on it.



#9
McSoccer

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Spot on.  He's a #8 with zero confidence right now.  Why he played so deep and so safe at the start of this season is beyond me.  Maybe those were instructions from his coach...and if so they were wrong.  Or maybe he felt the pressure of filling Dax's shoes and crumbled.  Honestly I'm not sure which is worse.

Sacha was a #8 his entire career before he was arguably the best CAM in MLS over a two year period.  I don't think you need a Mauro Diaz or if that type of CAM even fits Marsch's system.  I doubt Davis could play CAM anywhere near the levels of Sacha's heights, I'd just rather give him a chance before bringing in a guy like Duka.  Signing a real CAM that fits the system is the real fix.  That said, at this point I'd give him a start over Sacha for a game or two or at least some lengthy sub appearances.  Could he be much worse?

 

I think you hit on Davis' struggles, the pressure of replacing Dax.  I don't think the 4-2-2-2 helped him much, but I think it's hard to replace a guy like Dax, especially when the majority of the fanbase wished you weren't (not that they were into-Davis, just very pro-Dax).



#10
McSoccer

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In the seven games Davis started during Dax's injury in 2016, the team scored 14 goals or 2 goals per match.  The regular season average was 1.79 goals per match.  This doesn't mean the offense was better with Davis over Dax, but it's hard to argue the offense was worse with Davis.  The leaked leads during those seven matches would suggest the team was better overall with Dax, but I'm just making a point about Davis' value in the attack.



#11
elf

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The issue is not the formation or press. The issue with this team in offense is the obsession that every goals needs to be a tap in. Teams know if they overwhelm the box with players then it will be difricult for bwp or other rbny players to get a goal. The easiest way to stop this is by taking shots from outside the box. This is something that should be practiced or part of rbny's game plan. Sasha, royer, bwp and felipe should shoot when they have a look outside of the box. They need to be more greedy. If they add that element to their game then it will open things up. We also need someone who can go 1 on 1.

#12
uptownbull

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Just remember, only a few players haven't looked mostly like crap this year. Really thinking Marsch murdered team chemistry with the Dax trade. And has he shown the ability to develop talent?

I like Davis, but for his sake I kinda hope this train wreck of a farce of an organization trades him before they totally ruin him. Last game he came in to kill the clock he showed some 1v1 moves on the ball. Under a better coach he's having a better year.

RED. BULL. OUT. 

#SaveTheMetro


#13
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The issue is not the formation or press. The issue with this team in offense is the obsession that every goals needs to be a tap in. Teams know if they overwhelm the box with players then it will be difricult for bwp or other rbny players to get a goal. The easiest way to stop this is by taking shots from outside the box. This is something that should be practiced or part of rbny's game plan. Sasha, royer, bwp and felipe should shoot when they have a look outside of the box. They need to be more greedy. If they add that element to their game then it will open things up. We also need someone who can go 1 on 1.

And this is our second biggest problem exactly.  If you watch Red Bulls goals this year half of the goals are the same play.  Person out wide cuts in, hits the overlapper who plays a cross (preferably driven) into the box for a tap-in, rebound or header from within 6. When teams prevent that we have no ideas.  We have no ability to penetrate from the middle because no one is afraid of us shooting so they just pack the box.  Only person who sometimes attempts the long shots is Felipe, but frankly he is just meh to above average at them (don't point to last year's goals to say he is great at them when a couple were from dead balls and when he misses he puts them in row Z)






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