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Lineup for 2018


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#16
Eleazar

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#17
JBigjake54

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feeling ... bad for Muyl and Etienne. 


Survival of the fittest! Step up or go home!

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#18
RedBullScouse

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Already feeling kind of bad for Muyl and Etienne.  Those dudes are going to have a hell of a time getting any minutes.  They aren't even backups.  They are like 3rd options at this point.

 

 

Nothing against either one personally, but Etienne hasn't really produced much of anything in the minutes he's had, and Muyl should consider himself extremely fortunate to have gotten the many minutes he's been given.   With Cinci playing in '19 and Nashville and Miami in '20, there will be opportunity somewhere.   If Zizzo can land a spot...


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#19
thoward18

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Nothing against either one personally, but Etienne hasn't really produced much of anything in the minutes he's had, and Muyl should consider himself extremely fortunate to have gotten the many minutes he's been given.   With Cinci playing in '19 and Nashville and Miami in '20, there will be opportunity somewhere.   If Zizzo can land a spot...

I think it's also okay to say that not every academy product has to be an Adams/Miazga. Connor Lade has carved out a nice career as a backup. I know it's not the ideal, but there's nothing wrong with making $80K to play rotation minutes for your hometown club for 5-7 years



#20
RedBullCola

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Survival of the fittest! Step up or go home!

Could not agree more.  It felt at times last year Muyl was defaulted minutes.  Pissed me off that he started USOC final over Veron, but i digress...



#21
RedBullScouse

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I think it's also okay to say that not every academy product has to be an Adams/Miazga. Connor Lade has carved out a nice career as a backup. I know it's not the ideal, but there's nothing wrong with making $80K to play rotation minutes for your hometown club for 5-7 years

Couldn't agree more.    But if you're Muyl, you see 3,500+ minutes in your first two years, and it may be forever before he gets his next 3,500.   That can't be easy.


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#22
McSoccer

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Players should have earn their minutes, there's no doubt about that.  That doesn't mean the player second, or even third, on the depth chart has to be relegated to garbage time at the very end of games or starts in midweek matches where Marsch completely overhauls the lineup.  Why can't they get a 15-20 run every 2-3 matches?  Or even a spot start when the majority of the first team is playing?

 

Marsch was better with doing this last season than he had been the prior two, but he could still give some guys more minutes.



#23
RedBullScouse

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Players should have earn their minutes, there's no doubt about that.  That doesn't mean the player second, or even third, on the depth chart has to be relegated to garbage time at the very end of games or starts in midweek matches where Marsch completely overhauls the lineup.  Why can't they get a 15-20 run every 2-3 matches?  Or even a spot start when the majority of the first team is playing?

 

Marsch was better with doing this last season than he had been the prior two, but he could still give some guys more minutes.

Seems like most of the time either we are fighting for a Supporters Shield, or fighting just to make the playoffs, and can't take any chances.   That's why getting off to a good start matters, so you have some flexibility to position yourselves for a playoff run with some seasoned depth.    


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Bitch covered my plaid?
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"It goes without saying that when things don't go your way they just don't go your way. " - JCO

"He can't kick with his left foot, he can't tackle, he can't head the ball and he doesn't score many goals. Apart from that, he's all right.”
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#24
McSoccer

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Seems like most of the time either we are fighting for a Supporters Shield, or fighting just to make the playoffs, and can't take any chances.   That's why getting off to a good start matters, so you have some flexibility to position yourselves for a playoff run with some seasoned depth.    

Fair point.  With the increased depth throughout the league though, ALL MLS coaches are going to have to get better with rotating their bench players into matches, if those bench players are starter quality.  People can say what they want about Davis, but he is a solid MLS player and can be a starter in this league - just maybe not on this team.  That doesn't mean he should be glued to the bench until our first Wednesday match.



#25
Komba

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Players should have earn their minutes, there's no doubt about that.  That doesn't mean the player second, or even third, on the depth chart has to be relegated to garbage time at the very end of games or starts in midweek matches where Marsch completely overhauls the lineup.  Why can't they get a 15-20 run every 2-3 matches?  Or even a spot start when the majority of the first team is playing?

 

Marsch was better with doing this last season than he had been the prior two, but he could still give some guys more minutes.

Agree but we're talking the 6th and 7th choice when it comes to Muyl and Etienne at basically 3 positions.  And one of those 3 positions neither can play.  Rotation is good to try for, but you can't be expecting guys that deep on the depth chart to get significant minutes.

 

Figure that these guys are all above them:

 

Royer

Kaku

Davis

Rapinoe

Keita

Muyl

Etienne

Valot

Bezecourt

 

Hell, Valot and Bezecourt may as well not even get their hopes up of playing.  

 

And I understand you have to show something, but young guys need minutes to get better.  Etienne JUST turned 21 years old. He's just getting his man speed and strength.  Muyl, even though I'm no big fan, just turned 22 years old.  If they were gonna be 25 years old soon like Valot, that's no big deal but kids like Etienne and Muyl have to play.  Perhaps could play Etienne down with the 2's to get him minutes.  

 

Then again, if we roll with this 4-2-2-2 thing, Etienne has a shot at playing up top with BWP.  When he gets minutes this season, HE MUST make it work because he may not see the field much at all.



#26
McSoccer

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Agree but we're talking the 6th and 7th choice when it comes to Muyl and Etienne at basically 3 positions.  And one of those 3 positions neither can play.  Rotation is good to try for, but you can't be expecting guys that deep on the depth chart to get significant minutes.

 

Figure that these guys are all above them:

 

Royer

Kaku

Davis

Rapinoe

Keita

Muyl

Etienne

Valot

Bezecourt

 

Hell, Valot and Bezecourt may as well not even get their hopes up of playing.  

 

And I understand you have to show something, but young guys need minutes to get better.  Etienne JUST turned 21 years old. He's just getting his man speed and strength.  Muyl, even though I'm no big fan, just turned 22 years old.  If they were gonna be 25 years old soon like Valot, that's no big deal but kids like Etienne and Muyl have to play.  Perhaps could play Etienne down with the 2's to get him minutes.  

 

Then again, if we roll with this 4-2-2-2 thing, Etienne has a shot at playing up top with BWP.  When he gets minutes this season, HE MUST make it work because he may not see the field much at all.

Yea, but 3-5 of the guys you listed above them are going to be starters.  They're not that far down the depth chart.  And, they don't need to see 15 minutes off the bench every game, maybe just 2-3 games.  We're judging someone like Etienne from minutes he played in either the 4-2-2-2 which no one looked good in last season and some matches where the only starters playing were Robles and Felipe.



#27
uptownbull

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Still think Etienne got a really raw deal last year with his minutes vs. Muyls. Never got a steady run of games outside of the 4222 start when nobody looked good. Can see him being one they end up regretting let go. I think attacking players, especially young ones, generally need a few games to settle in and focus on playing well, not producing numbers to keep winning minutes.



#28
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Call me crazy, but I think when you reach this stage it is up to the players to make the most of their opportunities. The team has to focus on winning games and hardware and entertaining the paying customers, not concentrating on spreading minutes so no one's ego is hurt.

 

Muyl showed some very positive traits in that goal he scored against NE. He was aggressive to get into position, but then steadied himself and was patient to let the goalie establish his position and then placed the shot nicely by him in a tight window. These guys are all young and getting better. Etienne may make a jump that we don't see coming and earn more time. 

 

I agree with giving guys 15-20 minutes rather than 5, but they also have to earn it.



#29
Metrohoboken

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agree not all home growns will be Miazga/Adams.  Lade has a nice career as a spot starter.

 

I do feel bad for Ettienne and Myul.  Especially can't be easy for Myul to mostly start 2 season and then get pushed to the bench.  Was hopefull Ettienne got more time last year.  

 

Hopefully competition brings out the best in them.  I still think Derrick has potential especially as a 2nd striker/CAM or the 2 in the top 4222.

 

Wonder if Derrick could get a loan to LAFC for 1 year if he is not that happy.  

 

I think Davis will be a good spot starter (could be more in my opinion).  I think he is a smart player and understands our system.  

 

A functioning 4222 could benefit these players who are young and athletic.  of course we just added a lot of outside young athletic players.  

Hopefully everyone pushes each other to better heights.


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#30
McSoccer

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Call me crazy, but I think when you reach this stage it is up to the players to make the most of their opportunities. The team has to focus on winning games and hardware and entertaining the paying customers, not concentrating on spreading minutes so no one's ego is hurt.
 
Muyl showed some very positive traits in that goal he scored against NE. He was aggressive to get into position, but then steadied himself and was patient to let the goalie establish his position and then placed the shot nicely by him in a tight window. These guys are all young and getting better. Etienne may make a jump that we don't see coming and earn more time. 
 
I agree with giving guys 15-20 minutes rather than 5, but they also have to earn it.

This is not about hurt feelings. And, Id argue Etienne has not been given a real shot when you consider the type of minutes hes gotten - BWP also sucked in those games we played the 4-2-2-2. When Etienne got late game minutes with the starters in a formation that worked for our team last year, he got two assists.

Marsch bases minutes solely on training, but that doesnt always show the whole picture as evidenced by last season. Grella was still hampered by injury and was getting starts over Muyl, Davis, and Veron. Muyl was getting starts over Veron. This was all based on training, but those training victories didnt necessarily translate into success in actual games.

In 2016 Davis was more than adequate when Dax went down (team was undefeated, even if they had too many draws). Then when Dax came back, Davis didnt a minute until late in the last playoff game. Had he not earned any time based on his performances in those games?

Its about the continued development of young players. You can say thats what RBNY2 is for, but I dont think these guys are going to pushed at that level. I dont see how rotating a different young, bench player every game for 15-20 minutes is going to derail our season.




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