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Let's discuss the Dax trade again


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#1
GMoney

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The Dax trade was an even bigger catastrophe. To trade a top player, the heart and soul of the team for funny money.......which your front offfice is incapable of using that season on a good player. That is horrible value for a player in a trade. As a result the team went from finshimg 1st in the East in 2016 to scrambling down the stretch go make the play-offs and finishing 6th in the East. These moves aren’t wrecking the franchise because the cupboard was stocked by previous regimes (including Ali). A blind man can see we’re getting the ass end of these deals in terms of value. Look at that net/net: We trade 2 top players in MLS in Dax and Sasha and wind up with 2 disappointments in Rivas and Redding along with a net of about $400K in funny money. We get Parker, a good MLS CB and give up Felipe who is a good MLS CM along with maybe $1M in funny money. And in order to do so, we have to increase Parker’s annual salary to somewhere in the range of $500K a year. Not good value in my opinion.

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#2
McSoccer

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The Dax trade was an even bigger catastrophe. To trade a top player, the heart and soul of the team for funny money.......which your front offfice is incapable of using that season on a good player. That is horrible value for a player in a trade. As a result the team went from finshimg 1st in the East in 2016 to scrambling down the stretch go make the play-offs and finishing 6th in the East.

Maybe finished in 6th, but got further in the playoffs than we had the prior year and just as far as we did the year before.  The Dax trade wasn't just about the $400K, it was also about Davis and Adams.  You might not rate those guys as high as Dax, but they got us as far as Dax ever did in the postseason.  And, I'd argue we were closer to winning the TFC series than we were the Columbus series in 2015.



#3
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Maybe finished in 6th, but got further in the playoffs than we had the prior year and just as far as we did the year before.  The Dax trade wasn't just about the $400K, it was also about Davis and Adams.  You might not rate those guys as high as Dax, but they got us as far as Dax ever did in the postseason.  And, I'd argue we were closer to winning the TFC series than we were the Columbus series in 2015.

We didn't get any further in play-offs than before - lost in the same exact spot. We also qualified for CCL the year before by winning the East and now just barely got in with last spot. Chicago had a much better regular season than before and finally had a play-off appearance - rising from the laughingstock a year before. They clearly benefited a lot more. I agree that Dax's trade was about Davis and Adams, but that does not mean you get next to nothing back. We just got Parker back for a player comparable to Dax. And Adams ended up playing different position than Dax anyway. It's water under the bridge now, but that trade was absolute disaster and there is no harm in admitting it now.



#4
McSoccer

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We didn't get any further in play-offs than before - lost in the same exact spot. We also qualified for CCL the year before by winning the East and now just barely got in with last spot. Chicago had a much better regular season than before and finally had a play-off appearance - rising from the laughingstock a year before. They clearly benefited a lot more. I agree that Dax's trade was about Davis and Adams, but that does not mean you get next to nothing back. We just got Parker back for a player comparable to Dax. And Adams ended up playing different position than Dax anyway. It's water under the bridge now, but that trade was absolute disaster and there is no harm in admitting it now.

We were much closer to getting passed an all time TFC last season than we were beating Monteal in 2016. In 2015 we went a round further and lost to a Columbus team that wasnt nearly as good as TFC last year and we were closer to beating TFC. Dax is great, and it took us a season to figure things out without him, but once the playoffs came we were better than we had been with him.

#5
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We were much closer to getting passed an all time TFC last season than we were beating Monteal in 2016. In 2015 we went a round further and lost to a Columbus team that wasnt nearly as good as TFC last year and we were closer to beating TFC. Dax is great, and it took us a season to figure things out without him, but once the playoffs came we were better than we had been with him.

Losing in conference semis is still losing in semis - no extra credit for losing by two goals or on away goals. We did get extra points though for qualifying to CCL with Dax. Btw, against Montreal we had our chances and I feel should have won the series. Bwp literally missed empty net to tie it in Montreal and Sacha missed PK to even things out early in the second leg. We still lost both times, but I don't quite see how we were better without Dax. 6th spot in regular season, no CCL qualification and losing in conference semis < 1st spot in regular season, CCL qualification, and losing in semis. Chicago though were a laughing stock and improved to a play-off team partly due to Dax. Look, we've been had in that trade. Why not get an impact CB instead of nothing? Clearly it is possible to do - we just did it by giving up similar quality player to Dax.



#6
GMoney

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Losing in conference semis is still losing in semis - no extra credit for losing by two goals or on away goals. We did get extra points though for qualifying to CCL with Dax. Btw, against Montreal we had our chances and I feel should have won the series. Bwp literally missed empty net to tie it in Montreal and Sacha missed PK to even things out early in the second leg. We still lost both times, but I don't quite see how we were better without Dax. 6th spot in regular season, no CCL qualification and losing in conference semis < 1st spot in regular season, CCL qualification, and losing in semis. Chicago though were a laughing stock and improved to a play-off team partly due to Dax. Look, we've been had in that trade. Why not get an impact CB instead of nothing? Clearly it is possible to do - we just did it by giving up similar quality player to Dax.

 

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#7
McSoccer

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Losing in conference semis is still losing in semis - no extra credit for losing by two goals or on away goals. We did get extra points though for qualifying to CCL with Dax. Btw, against Montreal we had our chances and I feel should have won the series. Bwp literally missed empty net to tie it in Montreal and Sacha missed PK to even things out early in the second leg. We still lost both times, but I don't quite see how we were better without Dax. 6th spot in regular season, no CCL qualification and losing in conference semis < 1st spot in regular season, CCL qualification, and losing in semis. Chicago though were a laughing stock and improved to a play-off team partly due to Dax. Look, we've been had in that trade. Why not get an impact CB instead of nothing? Clearly it is possible to do - we just did it by giving up similar quality player to Dax.

Forget for a minute what round we lost in.

 

2015 - Had an amazing regular season.  Lost to an OK Columbus team in the playoffs.  Columbus was clearly the better team in the series.

 

2016 - Had an amazing regular season.  Lost to an OK Montreal team in the playoffs.  Montreal was clearly the better team in the series.

 

2017 - Not a great regular season, but went on a US Cup run and the team gels late after finding the right formation.  Lost to a Toronto team that was one of the best MLS teams of all-time in the playoffs.  Toronto was the better team in the series, but it wasn't as clear as the the prior two playoff losses.



#8
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Forget for a minute what round we lost in.

 

2015 - Had an amazing regular season.  Lost to an OK Columbus team in the playoffs.  Columbus was clearly the better team in the series.

 

2016 - Had an amazing regular season.  Lost to an OK Montreal team in the playoffs.  Montreal was clearly the better team in the series.

 

2017 - Not a great regular season, but went on a US Cup run and the team gels late after finding the right formation.  Lost to a Toronto team that was one of the best MLS teams of all-time in the playoffs.  Toronto was the better team in the series, but it wasn't as clear as the the prior two playoff losses.

In 2015 we went to conf finals, I don't think we can forget that + supporters shield and CCL qualifications. This was our best season of the 3.

 

In 2016 I disagree Montreal was clearly better. I felt we were better in leg 1, and they scored on the only chance they had. And this wasn't even a great chance, just the strike was world class. We had much better chances in that game, including empty net shot by BWP at the end to tie it and get away goal. In the second game we missed a PK to tie the series. Not making excuses for a loss - Montreal won fair and square, but I would not say they were a clearly better team. I think they were more opportunistic. Plus don't forget CCL qualification. 

 

Last year we struggled a lot and while the Open Cup was the bright spot, we still lost it, which was a bummer. Put up a good fight against Toronto, but once again lost. Out of the three 2017 this was clearly the worst year. Not a terrible year, but clearly a step down from two years prior.



#9
McSoccer

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In 2016 I disagree Montreal was clearly better.

Of the three, 2016 series against Montreal was the only series we didn't win a game in...

 

I agree, 2015 was probably the best season of the three because of the Shield.  But, I'm not sure if by the end of the season in 2017 that team wasn't the best of the bunch.  It took awhile for Marsch to figure out a formation that Sacha could play in.  Royer also missed time with injury, something (injuries) we didn't deal with in 2015.  And, in addition to being young, Adams missed a chunk of time with the U20s.

 

I love Dax.  Dax was great here.  That said, moving him for, what at the time at least, was considered a large amount of GAM so we could get younger was a push at worst and the right move at best.



#10
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Of the three, 2016 series against Montreal was the only series we didn't win a game in...

 

I agree, 2015 was probably the best season of the three because of the Shield.  But, I'm not sure if by the end of the season in 2017 that team wasn't the best of the bunch.  It took awhile for Marsch to figure out a formation that Sacha could play in.  Royer also missed time with injury, something (injuries) we didn't deal with in 2015.  And, in addition to being young, Adams missed a chunk of time with the U20s.

 

I love Dax.  Dax was great here.  That said, moving him for, what at the time at least, was considered a large amount of GAM so we could get younger was a push at worst and the right move at best.

While it is true we did not win a game against Montreal, I just felt we were right there and they were more opportunistic, that's it. They didn't outplay us and we had our chances. And in 2015 against Columbus, we were literally an inch away from tying it at RBA at the very end. I was there, and that header by BWP on the last play I thought it was going in, but it bounced off inside of the post. 1 inch, and we have OT at RBA and likely move on to the Cup finals. Oh well. As far as Dax, again, as you can see, it is possible to get a good CB back for a midfielder player of similar quality, but we didn't get jack shit. I get it about opening up spots for youngsters, but wouldn't it be nice to do so, while getting a good CB in return, which we just proved is possible to do, as opposed to nothing much?



#11
McSoccer

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While it is true we did not win a game against Montreal, I just felt we were right there and they were more opportunistic, that's it. They didn't outplay us and we had our chances. And in 2015 against Columbus, we were literally an inch away from tying it at RBA at the very end. I was there, and that header by BWP on the last play I thought it was going in, but it bounced off inside of the post. 1 inch, and we have OT at RBA and likely move on to the Cup finals. Oh well. As far as Dax, again, as you can see, it is possible to get a good CB back for a midfielder player of similar quality, but we didn't get jack shit. I get it about opening up spots for youngsters, but wouldn't it be nice to do so, while getting a good CB in return, which we just proved is possible to do, as opposed to nothing much?

We're getting a good CB for a midfielder PLUS sending Vancouver money.  Oh, and Vancouver is only moving Parker because he wants out.  Not sure if Parker wanted to stay in Vancouver, they would accept this trade.  We don't know what was available when we traded Dax.

 

People also often forget that some of the Dax money (maybe a lot of it) went to give raises to deserving players.



#12
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We're getting a good CB for a midfielder PLUS sending Vancouver money.  Oh, and Vancouver is only moving Parker because he wants out.  Not sure if Parker wanted to stay in Vancouver, they would accept this trade.  We don't know what was available when we traded Dax.

 

People also often forget that some of the Dax money (maybe a lot of it) went to give raises to deserving players.

Sure, Parker wanted a good contract, but the bottom line is, when you have a good player and you decide to trade him, it is possible to get some good players back. This year we got value for Felipe. Even for Sacha, who was 3 years older than Dax at the time of their respective trades and on a huge decline compared to a year ago, we got two youngsters. The point is - we are getting something tangible for our players now, which is a huge step up from when we traded Dax where we literally got nothing tangible and as a result were brutally raped, while Chicago got top 3 guy on their team and converted from garbage to a play-off team. Now we are finding opportunities and are getting talent back as opposed to nothing we got for Dax, which is nice to see. Even if we are adding some funny money to get that talent.



#13
McSoccer

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...we traded Dax where we literally got nothing tangible and as a result were brutally raped...

This might be one of the dumbest statements Ive ever read in my life. Congrats!

#14
JayJeeMoNee

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If you look at this trade on paper only (discounting intangibles like age, trading away a fan favorite, captain, and crucial leader, opening up playing time for Adams and Davis, etc.), the trade looked halfway decent when it went down -- because $400,000 of general allocation money smacked of being a huge amount of $$$ at the time.
 
A year later, my take is that this trade has got to be considered one of the most lopsided in league history.
 
A few weeks after the Dax trade, Kevin Molino was dealt from Orlando to Minnesota for $650,000 in total allocation ($450k in general allocation, $200k in targeted allocation). Then you've got the Dwyer trade: $1,600,000 in total allocation money ($400k in general, $500k in targeted, and $700k in future allocation based on performance). For the rest of 2017, Ethan Finlay, who wasn't even a starter for the Crew at the time of the trade, was dealt to Minnesota for $425,000 (with just 1 goal and 1 assist to his name in 19 games that season). Then LA received $500,000 in allocation money from the Scum for the rights to Paul Arriola ($300k in general, $200k in targeted). And last, KC got $400,000 in allocation money from the Revs for the rights to Krisztian Nemeth ($200k in general, $200k in targeted).
 
Now we're hearing we got Parker from Vancouver for Felipe, $500,000 in targeted allocation, AND an international roster spot for 2018...
 

That $400,000 is looking like chump change now.

 


If you need a refresher on the difference between general allocation and targeted allocation money (like I did), see below:
 
General allocation money must be used within 30 days of the close of the third full MLS transfer window after it was acquired. If a quantity of general allocation money is not used within that timeframe, it is halved by the league. That halved amount is then available for use during the next two transfer windows. If it is still not used after those transfer windows, the quantity is no longer available for use.
Targeted allocation money can be used in several ways:

  • Sign new or re-sign existing players whose salary and acquisition costs are more than the maximum salary budget charge ($504,375 in 2018) up to $1.5 million.
  • Convert a Designated Player to a non-Designated Player by buying down his salary budget charge to below the maximum salary budget charge provided the club then signs a new Designated Player at an investment equal to or greater than the player he is replacing.
  • Sign new homegrown players to their first MLS contract using up to $200,000 of targeted allocation money.
  • Trade league-funded targeted allocation money to another team.

Targeted allocation money must be applied, if not necessarily used, within four MLS transfer windows of its acquisition. In this case, “applied” does not mean a team actually has to use the amount within four windows. Rather, they merely have to notify the league of how they plan on using their expiring targeted allocation money – allocating a specific amount to a specific player – in the following window by the end of the fourth window after it was acquired. If they do not do that, that amount expires.


#REDBULLOUT

 

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#15
Borats

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This might be one of the dumbest statements Ive ever read in my life. Congrats!

Why? I feel like we really have been had in that trade. Care to elaborate what's so dumb about it or you are just spewing insults without offering anything of value?






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