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Some people argue about uncovering talent


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#1
JBigjake54

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I'm not entirely excited at the prospect of scouring the 2nd & 3rd divisions of England for bargains, either, if that is what they're going to be doing. 


Well, if we could find the next BWP at Charlton or
Plymouth Argyle, I would be delighted.
https://en.m.wikiped...Wright-Phillips
But, how likely is this diamond in the rough to be found?

We are good enough to beat the best teams, and bad enough to lose to the worst teams. 


#2
thoward18

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No. I would love us to buy SA 1st Division players.
If you wanted us to scout the 2nd & 3rd divisions,
I would have questioned that, then or now.

https://en.m.wikiped...ers_F.C._season
Most of the squad are not local.
12 of the 37 players listed are English.
Only 4 have double figures in appearances.
13 of 17 in double figures are foreign.
11 of the 37 are from Portugal and Spain.
The club does not seem tapped in locally.

What does that have to do with anything? Why does it matter if a CM he's grown familiar with at Blackburn Rovers is from England, Ukraine, or Zambia? 



#3
JBigjake54

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What does that have to do with anything? Why does it matter if a CM he's grown familiar with at Blackburn Rovers is from England, Ukraine, or Zambia? 

So, our strategy is not to hire someone who can locate English talent, but to hire somebody who can gauge the talents of foreigners acquired by English clubs, even though we do not have the checkbook to acquire them?
Or, we can wait until some of these players are eventually jettisoned and pick from the castoffs?

We are good enough to beat the best teams, and bad enough to lose to the worst teams. 


#4
thoward18

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So, our strategy is not to hire someone who can locate English talent, but to hire somebody who can gauge the talents of foreigners acquired by English clubs, even though we do not have the checkbook to acquire them?
Or, we can wait until some of these players are eventually jettisoned and pick from the castoffs?

Dude, what the hell are you going on about? I already wrote that the scouting network means fuck-all if they don't actually open their wallets. That has nothing to do with your initial complaint, which is that other teams aren't scouting there heavily and so therefore it's not a good place to scout. 



#5
JBigjake54

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Dude, what the hell are you going on about?

Take a deep breath, dude.

I already wrote that the scouting network means fuck-all if they don't actually open their wallets.

Why was Thelwell hired?
To find grassroots talent in England?
Or to point out talented players that RB will not buy?

That has nothing to do with your initial complaint, which is that other teams aren't scouting there heavily and so therefore it's not a good place to scout. 


You are incorrect here as well.
I replied to your comment that there is an embarrassment of talent in the EFL that we should be pursuing.
When asked, someone gave one example.
I concurred. BTW, that player is actually Scottish.
I do not see the lower divisions as some vast reservoir of skillful talented English players to be exploited by RB or other MLS clubs.
I would have loved for Sims to become a star here,
but he was on loan, and the better he played, the higher a transfer fee would have climbed. Not a cast-off.
Kaku exemplifies our SA failures.

We are good enough to beat the best teams, and bad enough to lose to the worst teams. 


#6
thoward18

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Take a deep breath, dude.
Why was Thewell hired?
To find grassroots talent in England?
Or to point out talented players that RB will not buy?

You are incorrect here as well.
I replied to your comment that there is an embarrassment of talent in the EFL that we should be pursuing.
When asked, you gave one example.
I concurred. BTW, that player is actually Scottish.
I do not see the lower divisions as some vast reservoir of skillful talented English players to be exploited by RB or other MLS clubs.
I would have loved for Sims to become a star here,
but he was on loan, and the better he played, the higher a transfer fee would have climbed. Not a cast-off.
Kaku exemplifies our SA failures.

You're still bizarrely stuck on whether the player available is actually from England or not, as if that matters. If in 2 years Thielwell is hired by a team in Belgium and Thielwell uses his acquired knowledge in America to recommend Diego Rossi, would it matter that Rossi isn't actually American? I didn't say Thielwell was using his network to uncover ENGLISH talent. I said he was using his network to uncover talent IN ENGLAND. 



#7
JBigjake54

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I didn't say Thielwell was using his network to uncover ENGLISH talent. I said he was using his network to uncover talent IN ENGLAND. 


Players transferred into England are not uncovered.
Their talent is already known, bought and paid for.
Anyone with internet access can see these players.

We are good enough to beat the best teams, and bad enough to lose to the worst teams. 


#8
thoward18

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Players transferred into England are not uncovered.
Their talent is already known, bought and paid for.
Anyone with internet access can see these players.

Lol yeah okay. I'm sure when Chelsea was looking at Pulisic they simply told their scouts not to bother to do any legwork as he was "already known."



#9
JBigjake54

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when Chelsea was looking at Pulisic they simply told their scouts not to bother to do any legwork as he was "already known."


Did any claim to have uncovered him?

We are good enough to beat the best teams, and bad enough to lose to the worst teams. 


#10
thoward18

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Did any claim to have uncovered him?

Mate when I say "uncovered" I don't mean discovering him like buried treasure. Not every team has 100% knowledge of every single league in every single country in the world. Having connections doesn't just mean discovering that a player exists. It means knowing where to look for guys who are fits. Who will adapt to a move to North America? Who will view such a move with ambition? Who will fit the budget? Who fits the playing style? And so on. Thielwell can do this better than Ali Curtis or Dennis Hamlett can because he has a rolodex of agents, scouts, coaches, etc. in the area on speed dial to speak with. And he has clout. He has the familiarity with those people to earn trust that the move will be right for the player. How likely are we to get Sims on loan if Southampton's coach is David Moyes instead of a former Leipzig manager? Probably not as likely. 



#11
JBigjake54

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when I say "uncovered" I don't mean discovering him

Uncover: verb, to discover something previously unknown

Thielwell can do this better than Ali Curtis or Dennis Hamlett

Faint praise, indeed.

he has a rolodex of agents, scouts, coaches, etc. in the area on speed dial to speak with.

I would think that every SD has 1,000 phone contacts.

he has clout.


I hope we see proof of this soon rather than later.

How likely are we to get Sims on loan if Southampton's coach is David Moyes instead of a former Leipzig manager?


As if that loan paid dividends.

We are good enough to beat the best teams, and bad enough to lose to the worst teams. 


#12
thoward18

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Uncover: verb, to discover something previously unknown
Faint praise, indeed.
I would think that every SD has 1,000 phone contacts.

I hope we see proof of this soon rather than later.

As if that loan paid dividends.

Ok, I get it. You're just looking for a sarcasm outlet. Look, I'm not promising big spending and successful transfers. I'm explaining how, in theory, the Championship and League One has a large stash of players who fit our system and how Thielwell could be an asset in acquiring them.



#13
JBigjake54

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Ok, I get it. You're just looking for a sarcasm outlet.

No, I just know the definitions of uncover & discover.

I'm not promising big spending and successful transfers.

Frankly, I wish you were.

I'm explaining how, in theory, the Championship and League One has a large stash of players who fit our system and how Thielwell could be an asset in acquiring them.


Theories are great, but Practice is what is needed.
I cannot remember who made me read this,
probably a Poli Sci class prof decades ago:
https://en.m.wikiped...iki/On_Practice

We are good enough to beat the best teams, and bad enough to lose to the worst teams. 


#14
thoward18

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No, I just know the definitions of uncover & discover.
Frankly, I wish you were.

Theories are great, but Practice is what is needed.
I cannot remember who made me read this,
probably a Poli Sci class prof decades ago:
https://en.m.wikiped...iki/On_Practice

Yeah but, again, this isn't what your initial complaint was. If I had written what I wrote, and you said, "they're not going to spend any money so does it matter?" then I would have agreed and that would have been the end of the conversation.

 

Your remark had nothing to do with that. Your remark was that no other MLS teams are signing talent out of there, and so it must not be a good place for RBNY to rake for talent to sign. You problem was not "practice is what's needed." Your problem was with the theory itself. 



#15
JBigjake54

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this isn't what your initial complaint was. If I had written what I wrote, and you said, "they're not going to spend any money so does it matter?" then I would have agreed and that would have been the end of the conversation.

My comment was and is: I do not believe there is an embarrassment of talent in the EFL that we should be mining.

Your remark was that no other MLS teams are signing talent out of there, and so it must not be a good place for RBNY to rake for talent to sign.


I stand by this as well.

We are good enough to beat the best teams, and bad enough to lose to the worst teams. 





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