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Some people want to debate politics and healthcare


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#1
GMoney

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This article lays it out well.  Basically, the issue is that we have hundreds of millions of people (both insured and uninsured) in this country who will  hesitant to get tested for the virus because it could very likely cost them money personally.  In countries with universal healthcare, this is not an issue.  It is much easier to convince people in other systems that there will be no cost to them and that it is in their interest to get tested as soon as possible.  In China, the government can simply say that no one can be charged for the testing.  In Italy and South Korea, they have universal healthcare and it is free. 
 
This is before you take into consideration things like paid sick leave, which the United States lacks and makes it far more likely that people will go to their work while sick and transmit it to everyone else.  The United States is easily the worst positioned advanced economy to deal with a pandemic.
 
https://www.cnn.com/...irus/index.html


Cool story bro


The New York Red Bulls previously kicked around Major League Soccer as the MetroStars with limited success. But after transforming under a new banner in 2005, the Red Bulls have become a force to be reckoned with in the Eastern Conference. The club has made leaps of progress since its previous incarnation and now has its focus on bringing the league title to New York. Grab your New York Red Bulls soccer jersey and other gear here at MLSGear.com.


#2
JBigjake54

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This article lays it out well. 
https://www.cnn.com/...irus/index.html


Not really. Any time that I read comments suggesting that our healthcare is the worst, I wonder what experience the writer has with or knowledge of universal health care in other countries. Someone I know once called it Public Defender medicine.
I only have personal and family experiences to base my opinions upon. Still, nothing positive there, certainly less than here.

We are good enough to beat the best teams, and bad enough to lose to the worst teams. 


#3
GMoney

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Not really. Any time that I read comments suggesting that our healthcare is the worst, I wonder what experience the writer has with or knowledge of universal health care in other countries. Someone I know once called it Public Defender medicine.


And when they get serious illness......theyre always rushing to those counties to try and access their healthcare.


The New York Red Bulls previously kicked around Major League Soccer as the MetroStars with limited success. But after transforming under a new banner in 2005, the Red Bulls have become a force to be reckoned with in the Eastern Conference. The club has made leaps of progress since its previous incarnation and now has its focus on bringing the league title to New York. Grab your New York Red Bulls soccer jersey and other gear here at MLSGear.com.


#4
JBigjake54

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when they get serious illness......theyre always rushing to those counties to try and access their healthcare.


Not necessarily quality healthcare, and often a line.
One example of the good, the bad & the ugly:
https://www.google.c...althcare-system
France: https://www.institut...-new-challenges
https://www.google.c...inistry-strikes
https://www.thelocal...tage-of-doctors
Canada:
https://www.google.c...-last-again/amp
https://www.google.c...a/amp/1.5170948
YMMV

We are good enough to beat the best teams, and bad enough to lose to the worst teams. 


#5
Antonius Block

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I never said our healthcare is the worst.  It is the worst in the developed world at dealing with a pandemic.  Those are two different things.  Although American healthcare is demonstrably terrible compared to many other developed nations when measured by things like longevity, infant mortality, amount of chronic disease, etc. Having tens of millions of people without any health insurance will do that. 

 

https://www.commonwe...erspective-2019

 

You might have anecdote about universal health being bad, but I have many anecdotes about people dying or preventable disease and for lack of insulin that are literally impossible in most developed systems. What ever the anecdotes are, the statistics show American healthcare is a disgrace. 


"To believe is to suffer. It is like loving someone in the dark who never answers." - Antonius Block on Metro fandom


#6
JBigjake54

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I never said our healthcare is the worst.  It is the worst in the developed world at dealing with a pandemic.  Those are two different things. 

How many prior pandemics have there been?
We may be about to find out who is best & worst.

American healthcare is demonstrably terrible compared to many other developed nations when measured by things like longevity, infant mortality, amount of chronic disease, etc. Having tens of millions of people without any health insurance will do that. 
https://www.commonwe...erspective-2019

Apples and oranges. I would not blame obesity, substance abuse, violent crime and suicide on the healthcare system.

I have many anecdotes about people dying or preventable disease and for lack of insulin that are literally impossible in most developed systems.

If you could rephrase this in a coherent sentence,
perhaps I could respond.

statistics show American healthcare is a disgrace. 


I continue to disagree. America has excellent medical care. That some are uninsured is a separate issue.

We are good enough to beat the best teams, and bad enough to lose to the worst teams. 


#7
Right Back

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I continue to disagree. America has excellent medical care. That some are uninsured is a separate issue.

 

Can you please provide some documentation that indicates by what metrics we have excellent healthcare? Also can you please explained why millions of uninsured people and under-insurance are separate issues? Given that in our system proper insurance is necessary to receive quality healthcare, I'm unclear on how they are separate. 


#RedBullOut

 

 

Rats get fat, good men die.


#8
JBigjake54

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please provide some documentation that indicates by what metrics we have excellent healthcare

4 of top 5 best hospital groups in the world:
https://www.advisory.../best-hospitals

please explained why millions of uninsured people and under-insurance are separate issues?

Because one has nothing to do with the other.

Given that in our system proper insurance is necessary to receive quality healthcare 


Not given at all. Example: cousin of a friend was visiting here from Europe. Went into premature labor, had a child here with major heart issues. No insurance. Baby was taken to CHoP, received fantastic & expensive care for free, and survived. Mom showed me info she received from her home country, that they would not treat the baby. The exact translation was: let nature take its course.

We are good enough to beat the best teams, and bad enough to lose to the worst teams. 


#9
Right Back

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Because one has nothing to do with the other.
 

Elaborate please. I'm asking for your reasoning but you just repeating your statement doesn't really help me understand what your logic is. 


#RedBullOut

 

 

Rats get fat, good men die.


#10
gravediGGer

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Elaborate please. I'm asking for your reasoning but you just repeating your statement doesn't really help me understand what your logic is. 


Because it's obvious!
Duh!

Sometimes I think the entire Red Bull existence has been some 19 year old kids football manager save file he only plays when he comes home drunk. - 'Mibabalou'

#FUCKredbull


#11
JBigjake54

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I'm asking for your reasoning .., your statement doesn't really help me understand what your logic is. 

You just do not want to understand.
1. The USA has excellent health care.
2. Not everyone has health insurance.
3. Anyone who walks into an ER must be treated.
4. You cannot be asked for insurance info first.
5. Even illegal aliens get treated.

We are good enough to beat the best teams, and bad enough to lose to the worst teams. 


#12
Right Back

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You just do not want to understand.
1. The USA has excellent health care.
2. Not everyone has health insurance.
3. Anyone who walks into an ER must be treated.
4. You cannot be asked for insurance info first.
5. Even illegal aliens get treated.

Not all medical conditions are emergencies, and even if the ER can't ask you about payment information up front, that doesn't mean you won't be hit with a bill. Emergency rooms are for emergencies, not all facets of healthcare. There are literally millions of Americans who forego medical care that could help prevent much larger issues down the road because they don't have the financial means or insurance to cover it. 

 

Additionally, if you're actually trying to convince me of your view or trying to find common ground, assuming my intent isn't a very good way to do so.

 

 

https://www.kff.org/...lth-care-costs/

Just to give some context, this seemed like a good summary of issues with cost and insurance, which included the following point:

 

  • Health care costs stop people from getting needed care or filling prescriptions. Half of U.S. adults say they or a family member put off or skipped some sort of health care or dental care or relied on an alternative treatment in the past year because of the cost, and about one in eight say their medical condition got worse as a result. Three in ten of all adults (29 percent) also report not taking their medicines as prescribed at some point in the past year because of the cost.

#RedBullOut

 

 

Rats get fat, good men die.


#13
Right Back

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And when they get serious illness......theyre always rushing to those counties to try and access their healthcare.
 

https://money.com/sh...per-medication/

 

Literally though.


#RedBullOut

 

 

Rats get fat, good men die.


#14
Antonius Block

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1. The USA has excellent health care.

If you can afford it.  On average, you are worse off getting basically any illness or even giving birth in the United States than basically any other developed country in the world.  Those are the facts.  

 

For the rich, the United States has some of the best health care.  For the average, it is far below the world average for first world industrialized nations.  For the poor, it is the worst of any developed country in the world. 

 

A country where young people routinely die because of lack of access to insulin does not have excellent health care. 


"To believe is to suffer. It is like loving someone in the dark who never answers." - Antonius Block on Metro fandom


#15
JBigjake54

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Not all medical conditions are emergencies, and even if the ER can't ask you about payment information up front, that doesn't mean you won't be hit with a bill. Emergency rooms are for emergencies, not all facets of healthcare.

There is a reason ambulances are nicknamed buses in NYC. People routinely claim Chest Pains when all they have is a cold, for a free ride to the ER in an ambulance.
The poor have Medicaid. Most hospital bills go unpaid.

millions of Americans ... forego medical care that could help prevent much larger issues down the road because they don't have the financial means or insurance 


A significant number are also obese because they will not diet or exercise, have lung issues because they smoke, and live in environments where violence and substance abuse are part of the landscape. There are free clinics and programs which many do not frequent, in part because they do not want to be told to modify their behaviors. Some are insured, and also avoid the advice.

if you're actually trying to convince me of your view or trying to find common ground, assuming my intent isn't a very good way to do so.

I am not trying to convince you of anything. Your USA-awful, Socialized Health-good mindset appears set in stone.

Half of U.S. adults say


People say a lot in surveys. That does not make it fact.

We are good enough to beat the best teams, and bad enough to lose to the worst teams. 





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