Jump to content

Reading and Rivas


  • Please log in to reply
20 replies to this topic

#1
CGF

CGF

    Player/Manager

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3,357 posts
  • Supports:RBNY

It occurred to me as I look at the lineups- we traded Kljestan for space but Rivas is making 444k this year... to do what? Be behind Etienne on the depth chart?

 

Guy needs to do something soon. 


"Thank you, Jesus. (Martinez.)"- Jamison

#2
Voice of Reason II

Voice of Reason II

    Dir. of Football Operations

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,774 posts

It occurred to me as I look at the lineups- we traded Kljestan for space but Rivas is making 444k this year... to do what? Be behind Etienne on the depth chart?

 

Guy needs to do something soon. 

Not everyone pans out. Just because we want him to do something doesn't mean he will.



#3
Eleazar

Eleazar

    One who helps God

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,198 posts
  • Location:New York City
  • Interests:Metro, the USMNT and Boston College Athletics
  • Supports:METRO

Totally fine with both Redding and Rivas being waived. Doesn't matter when. 


RIP Guillermo Romulo, Alexander Francis Orig and Celenio Eleazar.

 

RIP Cesar Castello, Mike Vallo, and Glenn Stampiglia

 

"Metro..."

 


#4
gears

gears

    First Team

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,599 posts

This is looking like one of those rare lose-lose trades.



#5
acesfull86

acesfull86

    Player/Manager

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,377 posts
  • Supports:NYRB, NYK, NYM, NYJ
It is interesting that our recent hit rate on developing and promoting talent from the USL is so high, as well as our scouting of international players from minor leagues, yet we completely whiffed on two dudes with MLS experience.

#6
Eleazar

Eleazar

    One who helps God

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,198 posts
  • Location:New York City
  • Interests:Metro, the USMNT and Boston College Athletics
  • Supports:METRO

It is interesting that our recent hit rate on developing and promoting talent from the USL is so high, as well as our scouting of international players from minor leagues, yet we completely whiffed on two dudes with MLS experience.

Tainted by Heath. 


RIP Guillermo Romulo, Alexander Francis Orig and Celenio Eleazar.

 

RIP Cesar Castello, Mike Vallo, and Glenn Stampiglia

 

"Metro..."

 


#7
jamison

jamison

    Dir. of Football Operations

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,318 posts
  • Supports:New York

It is interesting that our recent hit rate on developing and promoting talent from the USL is so high, as well as our scouting of international players from minor leagues, yet we completely whiffed on two dudes with MLS experience.

I don't believe- and we have had this argument before- that people value this trade the right way.

 

We wanted Sacha off of our roster. There may have been a better time to deal the reigning two-time assist leader, but, we (the message board) don't know what other offers were out there.  It's easy to say "We should've traded him to Team X for a bag of gold and $1M in allocation money, but what if everyone knew we were trying to off-load him cheap, and there were no other takers? He was coming off of a really ugly playoff exit, and a really great regular season.  It seems like, without BWP finishing his chances & a system helping him defensively, he isn't as effective in Orlando as he was here. 

 

So, saying 'Rivas & Reading suck' is kind of an incomplete argument. Kaku seems pretty dope. There isn't a Kaku with Sacha still here.  It would've been bad to trade him to TFC or NYCFC for nothing, so we traded him to Orlando for nothing. Where he's been going downhill, which we assumed would happen at some point, which is why we traded him. 

 

There's an old HR joke that goes "What happens if we invest in our employees, and they leave? The response: What if we don't, and they stay?"  So, yes, the trade looks bad in a vacuum, but what if we didn't make the trade, didn't get Kaku, and Sacha started declining here, now, this season? Is that better than having Rivas & Reading producing nothing? Probably not, since we're able to enjoy the upgrade of a younger Kaku in Sacha's place. 

 

I think there's a 10-15% chance that either Reading or Rivas end up being useful role players at some point. I think there's a 85-90% chance that they just continue to fade into oblivion and the trade looks awful as a straight up trade in hindsight. 

 

But, if we're lifting a cup in December, then the "but what about getting nothing for Sacha" argument doesn't really matter.  Only, it's July, so we can't answer December questions yet. 

 

Yes, the trade looks bad now.  Yes, it will likely always look bad.  But, that's really only if you know that we were offered something better by Dallas or LA (etc.) for him, and turned that down (an unknown), and it possibly ignores that losing Sacha was addition by subtraction.  Dan made the argument before that "Well, we could've gotten good role players instead of shitty ones." I totally agree with that- as long as someone was willing to trade us two good players instead of two shitty ones. But, I don't know that, so I can't kill the team for making the trade just yet. 

 

*Alls* I'm saying is, consider more than 1 side to this trade. 
 


 


#8
Indyanapolis

Indyanapolis

    First Team

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,207 posts
  • Supports:Metro
We could have just released Sacha, saved 500k in allocation, and saved on the cash were wasting on Rivas and Redding. Dont get me wrong, were a better team without Sacha, but this deal was horrible.
Frankly, since I am merely a fan and a not a fancy American soccer writer, I'm going to congratulate Wright-Phillips on a well hit goal. If I was an American soccer writer, I'd claim that the recently retired Henry was wearing an invisibility cloak and carried the ball into the net for the obviously unskilled Wright-Phillips.

If you scan YouTube looking for Bradley Wright-Phillips, youll find numerous goal compilations, a few interviews and, eventually, an excerpt from the grime mixtape series Lord of the Mics.

#9
General Robles

General Robles

    First Team

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 821 posts
  • Location:Hoboken
  • Supports:Metro, Newcastle, Palermo

I don't believe- and we have had this argument before- that people value this trade the right way.
 
We wanted Sacha off of our roster. There may have been a better time to deal the reigning two-time assist leader, but, we (the message board) don't know what other offers were out there.  It's easy to say "We should've traded him to Team X for a bag of gold and $1M in allocation money, but what if everyone knew we were trying to off-load him cheap, and there were no other takers? He was coming off of a really ugly playoff exit, and a really great regular season.  It seems like, without BWP finishing his chances & a system helping him defensively, he isn't as effective in Orlando as he was here. 
 
So, saying 'Rivas & Reading suck' is kind of an incomplete argument. Kaku seems pretty dope. There isn't a Kaku with Sacha still here.  It would've been bad to trade him to TFC or NYCFC for nothing, so we traded him to Orlando for nothing. Where he's been going downhill, which we assumed would happen at some point, which is why we traded him. 
 
There's an old HR joke that goes "What happens if we invest in our employees, and they leave? The response: What if we don't, and they stay?"  So, yes, the trade looks bad in a vacuum, but what if we didn't make the trade, didn't get Kaku, and Sacha started declining here, now, this season? Is that better than having Rivas & Reading producing nothing? Probably not, since we're able to enjoy the upgrade of a younger Kaku in Sacha's place. 
 
I think there's a 10-15% chance that either Reading or Rivas end up being useful role players at some point. I think there's a 85-90% chance that they just continue to fade into oblivion and the trade looks awful as a straight up trade in hindsight. 
 
But, if we're lifting a cup in December, then the "but what about getting nothing for Sacha" argument doesn't really matter.  Only, it's July, so we can't answer December questions yet. 
 
Yes, the trade looks bad now.  Yes, it will likely always look bad.  But, that's really only if you know that we were offered something better by Dallas or LA (etc.) for him, and turned that down (an unknown), and it possibly ignores that losing Sacha was addition by subtraction.  Dan made the argument before that "Well, we could've gotten good role players instead of shitty ones." I totally agree with that- as long as someone was willing to trade us two good players instead of two shitty ones. But, I don't know that, so I can't kill the team for making the trade just yet. 
 
*Alls* I'm saying is, consider more than 1 side to this trade. 
 


Excellent post and spot on. Id even argue that, under the assumption that Rivas and Redding contribute zero, the trade is still good today. I love Sacha, but this team looks infinitely more complete and dangerous than it did last year. We dont add Kaku with Sacha still here. We also probably wouldnt have been afforded as much of an opportunity to see a guy like Valot develop. Kakus integrarion period and time away with Paraguay have allowed him to get ample minutes. The positives outweigh the negatives, even without the direct trade off we received for Sacha.

#10
uptownbull

uptownbull

    First Team

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,516 posts
  • Supports:metro, barca, usa

In Woly we trust to turn at least one of them into a useful squad player and/or trade value.



#11
elf

elf

    Player/Manager

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4,393 posts
  • Supports:Metrostars
Rivas would fit perfectly on how rbny plays. He just looks out of shape.

I was expecting Redding to be a better player but he fell apart in orlando

#12
acesfull86

acesfull86

    Player/Manager

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,377 posts
  • Supports:NYRB, NYK, NYM, NYJ

I don't believe- and we have had this argument before- that people value this trade the right way.
 
We wanted Sacha off of our roster. There may have been a better time to deal the reigning two-time assist leader, but, we (the message board) don't know what other offers were out there.  It's easy to say "We should've traded him to Team X for a bag of gold and $1M in allocation money, but what if everyone knew we were trying to off-load him cheap, and there were no other takers? He was coming off of a really ugly playoff exit, and a really great regular season.  It seems like, without BWP finishing his chances & a system helping him defensively, he isn't as effective in Orlando as he was here. 
 
So, saying 'Rivas & Reading suck' is kind of an incomplete argument. Kaku seems pretty dope. There isn't a Kaku with Sacha still here.  It would've been bad to trade him to TFC or NYCFC for nothing, so we traded him to Orlando for nothing. Where he's been going downhill, which we assumed would happen at some point, which is why we traded him. 
 
There's an old HR joke that goes "What happens if we invest in our employees, and they leave? The response: What if we don't, and they stay?"  So, yes, the trade looks bad in a vacuum, but what if we didn't make the trade, didn't get Kaku, and Sacha started declining here, now, this season? Is that better than having Rivas & Reading producing nothing? Probably not, since we're able to enjoy the upgrade of a younger Kaku in Sacha's place. 
 
I think there's a 10-15% chance that either Reading or Rivas end up being useful role players at some point. I think there's a 85-90% chance that they just continue to fade into oblivion and the trade looks awful as a straight up trade in hindsight. 
 
But, if we're lifting a cup in December, then the "but what about getting nothing for Sacha" argument doesn't really matter.  Only, it's July, so we can't answer December questions yet. 
 
Yes, the trade looks bad now.  Yes, it will likely always look bad.  But, that's really only if you know that we were offered something better by Dallas or LA (etc.) for him, and turned that down (an unknown), and it possibly ignores that losing Sacha was addition by subtraction.  Dan made the argument before that "Well, we could've gotten good role players instead of shitty ones." I totally agree with that- as long as someone was willing to trade us two good players instead of two shitty ones. But, I don't know that, so I can't kill the team for making the trade just yet. 
 
*Alls* I'm saying is, consider more than 1 side to this trade. 
 


Great post...and I am with ya.

#13
JBigjake54

JBigjake54

    Amicus Curiae

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,631 posts
  • Supports:MetroStars

We could have just released Sacha, saved 500k in allocation, and saved on the cash were wasting on Rivas and Redding. Dont get me wrong, were a better team without Sacha, but this deal was horrible.


Did you post this pre-season?

We are good enough to beat the best teams, and bad enough to lose to the worst teams. 


#14
Indyanapolis

Indyanapolis

    First Team

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,207 posts
  • Supports:Metro

Did you post this pre-season?


I posted something like this maybe a month or so ago once we realized just how had Rivas and Redding were.
Frankly, since I am merely a fan and a not a fancy American soccer writer, I'm going to congratulate Wright-Phillips on a well hit goal. If I was an American soccer writer, I'd claim that the recently retired Henry was wearing an invisibility cloak and carried the ball into the net for the obviously unskilled Wright-Phillips.

If you scan YouTube looking for Bradley Wright-Phillips, youll find numerous goal compilations, a few interviews and, eventually, an excerpt from the grime mixtape series Lord of the Mics.

#15
Brian.MLS

Brian.MLS

    RIP MetroStars

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4,543 posts
  • Supports:Metro, RBNYII, RBNY U23s, USMNT
Rivas - Came in out of shape, had some personal issues he was dealing with and flying back and forth to Colombia. Team feels he is 100% committed now so once he gets his fitness under him, I think he will be a regular sub.

Redding - has the physical tools and even positions himself well off the ball. Mentally, however, he is checked out. He owns a gaming business and seems to be more into that world. In his USL and MLS games (2 and 1, respectively) he makes poor choices when called into action and can't keep up with the teams high press. There is a reason he is training with the team every day yet does not make the 18 on either the MLS or USL roster. Andrew Lombard just returned from a 3 month injury and made the 18 for the USL team over him.
I'd venture to guess they let him know he doesn't have a role with the club other than being a cone during practice and are waiting to release him.

Sad that we had other options from Orland other than Redding, yet pushed hard for him and we ended up with someone who doesn't seem to want to be here.
2013 & 2015 Supporters Shield Winners
As Long As We're Breathing

 
@CurseofCaricola




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users