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Matty Ice was a HUGE swing and a miss


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#1
RedBullScouse

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Do we have a track record of failed international signings of players that age and price tag? Jorgensen is one. Is that it? That's what we're going to base this off of? Would signing Barcelona defenders be a shitty idea since we have a "bad track record" of that, AKA one failed attempt?

 

Please enlighten me as to the similarities between Jorgensen and this guy that go beyond "young guy who didn't crack the senior team yet."

I completely understand the import of tiny sample size.   That said, Matty Ice was a HUGE swing and a miss.    They fully expected him to be playing most of last season on the senior squad, and he never proved himself a real starter on the reserves.  What have you seen from this group that gives you any confidence in their ability to find a difference-maker at that age and budget?   I have very little confidence in their ability to find a difference maker at any age or budget, but at least the magic invisible hand of the market will give you some idea that a more proven, higher-priced guy will be a more-proven, higher priced guy.  


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#2
Eleazar

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I completely understand the import of tiny sample size.   That said, Matty Ice was a HUGE swing and a miss.    They fully expected him to be playing most of last season on the senior squad, and he never proved himself a real starter on the reserves.  What have you seen from this group that gives you any confidence in their ability to find a difference-maker at that age and budget?   I have very little confidence in their ability to find a difference maker at any age or budget, but at least the magic invisible hand of the market will give you some idea that a more proven, higher-priced guy will be a more-proven, higher priced guy.  

 

huge swing and a miss, considering what was brought in at the time...

 

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#3
JBigjake54

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Matty Ice was a HUGE swing and a miss.


The FO needs to keep swinging.

We are good enough to beat the best teams, and bad enough to lose to the worst teams. 


#4
Indyanapolis

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The FO needs to keep swinging.


One small point that doesn't really get mentioned enough is that the MLS salary cap structure keeps RBNY from adopting a full-out RBS/RBL style transfer strategy even if they wanted to.

 

For example, this year Salzburg brought in two starting defenders for ~11M and ~5.5M each, but they also brought in 3 teenage prospects for between 2 and 3 million each.  All 3 of those are playing in the second division for Leifering, essentially exactly in the mold of what Jorgenson is doing for us.

 

The problem is, since MLS counts transfer fees against the cap, we can't get away with signing a few projects ever year.  Even on teenager salaries, you're forced into using allocation money to buy down their cap hit so they're not a DP.


Frankly, since I am merely a fan and a not a fancy American soccer writer, I'm going to congratulate Wright-Phillips on a well hit goal. If I was an American soccer writer, I'd claim that the recently retired Henry was wearing an invisibility cloak and carried the ball into the net for the obviously unskilled Wright-Phillips.

If you scan YouTube looking for Bradley Wright-Phillips, youll find numerous goal compilations, a few interviews and, eventually, an excerpt from the grime mixtape series Lord of the Mics.

#5
iced1776

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One small point that doesn't really get mentioned enough is that the MLS salary cap structure keeps RBNY from adopting a full-out RBS/RBL style transfer strategy even if they wanted to.

 

For example, this year Salzburg brought in two starting defenders for ~11M and ~5.5M each, but they also brought in 3 teenage prospects for between 2 and 3 million each.  All 3 of those are playing in the second division for Leifering, essentially exactly in the mold of what Jorgenson is doing for us.

 

The problem is, since MLS counts transfer fees against the cap, we can't get away with signing a few projects ever year.  Even on teenager salaries, you're forced into using allocation money to buy down their cap hit so they're not a DP.

 

Long term that's true, but we only have one DP at the moment and MLS lets you use about $4M per year in TAM. Red Bulls could spend like the highest rolling teams on the planet this window and fit all of those signings on to the roster. 



#6
defendyourself

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naively i am going to hope new scouting group prevents future Jorgy signings and we are back to doing a good job in the market.  

 

I don't even think isolated Jorgy is a bad prospect but they overpaid and didnt understand how much of a project he was.  If he was a free transfer or acquired on loan originally with option to buy I dont think anyone would care that we signed him. 

 

Hopefully he makes a jump this offseason and gains 10 lbs.   

 

In general adding another CM to compete for starting places should hopefully get Rza and Sean back to their 2018 levels and that would help us a ton.



#7
Indyanapolis

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Long term that's true, but we only have one DP at the moment and MLS lets you use about $4M per year in TAM. Red Bulls could spend like the highest rolling teams on the planet this window and fit all of those signings on to the roster. 


Absolutely, a lack of "project" signings is definitely well down the list of issues with the team.  Just wanted to point out that before people start saying that RBS does it, so why don't we.


Frankly, since I am merely a fan and a not a fancy American soccer writer, I'm going to congratulate Wright-Phillips on a well hit goal. If I was an American soccer writer, I'd claim that the recently retired Henry was wearing an invisibility cloak and carried the ball into the net for the obviously unskilled Wright-Phillips.

If you scan YouTube looking for Bradley Wright-Phillips, youll find numerous goal compilations, a few interviews and, eventually, an excerpt from the grime mixtape series Lord of the Mics.

#8
elf

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I completely understand the import of tiny sample size.   That said, Matty Ice was a HUGE swing and a miss.    They fully expected him to be playing most of last season on the senior squad, and he never proved himself a real starter on the reserves.  What have you seen from this group that gives you any confidence in their ability to find a difference-maker at that age and budget?   I have very little confidence in their ability to find a difference maker at any age or budget, but at least the magic invisible hand of the market will give you some idea that a more proven, higher-priced guy will be a more-proven, higher priced guy.  


You could also argue that White made it difficult for the coaches to bench since he kept scoring. So they did the right thing by keeping him in rb2 to learn the system.

#9
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You could also argue that White made it difficult for the coaches to bench since he kept scoring. So they did the right thing by keeping him in rb2 to learn the system.


And then they promoted Barlow from RB2 over Jorgensen. Massive fail.


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#10
elf

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And then they promoted Barlow from RB2 over Jorgensen. Massive fail.



Not sure if its a massive fail. Barlow is almost at his peak in development while jorgensen is still begining his career.

Its more valuable for jorgensen to get playing time instead of sitting in the bench. And Barlow did okay as an mls sub/ spot starter.

#11
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Not sure if its a massive fail. Barlow is almost at his peak in development while jorgensen is still begining his career.

Its more valuable for jorgensen to get playing time instead of sitting in the bench.
 


But Barlow got playing time immediately after he was called up... and then started in the playoffs. For both the first team and then the reserves.


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#12
RedBullScouse

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Absolutely delusional rationalization , and you apparently never watched him play. Matty Ice may someday turn into something, but he so far has been an absolute failure by any standard.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." - Iron Mike

 

Bitch covered my plaid?
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I need my plaid pitch.

"It goes without saying that when things don't go your way they just don't go your way. " - JCO

"He can't kick with his left foot, he can't tackle, he can't head the ball and he doesn't score many goals. Apart from that, he's all right.”
George Best, on David Beckham


#13
iced1776

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Not sure if its a massive fail. Barlow is almost at his peak in development while jorgensen is still begining his career.

Its more valuable for jorgensen to get playing time instead of sitting in the bench. And Barlow did okay as an mls sub/ spot starter.

 

You're trying very hard to view all of these players in a vacuum, and you just can't do that in a salary capped league. It doesn't matter what stage of their careers these players are in or what their potential, MLS is simply not in a place where teams can spend $2M on a player that doesn't contribute. If your $2M man can't even get a sniff of playing time over a 24-year old rookie that was only "okay as an mls sub/spot starter" then yes its a massive problem.



#14
TK_RBNY

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You're trying very hard to view all of these players in a vacuum, and you just can't do that in a salary capped league. It doesn't matter what stage of their careers these players are in or what their potential, MLS is simply not in a place where teams can spend $2M on a player that doesn't contribute. If your $2M man can't even get a sniff of playing time over a 24-year old rookie that was only "okay as an mls sub/spot starter" then yes its a massive problem.


especially someone on a TAM level contract and taking up an international spot.

#15
thoward18

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Not sure if its a massive fail. Barlow is almost at his peak in development while jorgensen is still begining his career.

Its more valuable for jorgensen to get playing time instead of sitting in the bench. And Barlow did okay as an mls sub/ spot starter.

This would be a convincing argument if Jorgensen was an acaemy product or something. If your transfer fee is in the millions, then you should be beating out a guy taken in the second round of the MLS SuperDraft.






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