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The name thing, again


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#1
RedBullScouse

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What do you think prevents this team from having an organic and enthusiastic, stadium-packing fan culture around it, like SKC or Portland?

 

Where would you rank "Red Bull New York" among the best and worst names/identities/logos of all the pro sports teams in NY & NJ?

let me put on my Long Island Medium wig and make a guess....  I'm getting a sense that you believe the RB name/identity and logo is  the reason we don't have an organic and enthusiastic, stadium-packing fan culture.     How'd I do? 


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#2
uptownbull

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let me put on my Long Island Medium wig and make a guess....  I'm getting a sense that you believe the RB name/identity and logo is  the reason we don't have an organic and enthusiastic, stadium-packing fan culture.     How'd I do? 

That would be taking my question and building a straw man out of it. The identity isn't THE REASON, because there isn't just one, but it certainly doesn't help. Anyone that pretends otherwise is just trying to convince themselves that the crest on that jersey they just spent $80+ for isn't lame in at least 3 different ways.


RED. BULL. OUT.


#3
ivo

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That would be taking my question and building a straw man out of it. The identity isn't THE REASON, because there isn't just one, but it certainly doesn't help.

Continuing the tangent out of curiosity if you don't mind.

What do you think the increase in crowd size would be if they changed the team name to Athletic NJ or something generic along those lines, or even the holy grail of NY/NJ Metrostars or Metro FC? Let's say our crowd size is 15k now for simplicity. Do you think we would get an extra 1k a game? 5k?

Nothing else changes, just the name. Or if you want, remove the RB crest as well and have e.g. Honda be the main sponsor with a simple non-obtrusive logo.

Obviously, there's no way to know, but I think some here overestimate the name impact on non-hardcore fans.

#4
iced1776

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That would be taking my question and building a straw man out of it. The identity isn't THE REASON, because there isn't just one, but it certainly doesn't help. Anyone that pretends otherwise is just trying to convince themselves that the crest on that jersey they just spent $80+ for isn't lame in at least 3 different ways.

 

I genuinely like the Red Bull branding. The name and logo lends itself well to an American sports team and the energy drink's presence in pop culture had faded to the point where I barely connect the two anymore. 



#5
REDBULLSBRAD

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Continuing the tangent out of curiosity if you don't mind.

What do you think the increase in crowd size would be if they changed the team name to Athletic NJ or something generic along those lines, or even the holy grail of NY/NJ Metrostars or Metro FC? Let's say our crowd size is 15k now for simplicity. Do you think we would get an extra 1k a game? 5k?

Nothing else changes, just the name. Or if you want, remove the RB crest as well and have e.g. Honda be the main sponsor with a simple non-obtrusive logo.

Obviously, there's no way to know, but I think some here overestimate the name impact on non-hardcore fans.

 

IMHO, it's all about the timing.  To build a consistent, stadium packing fanbase, you need at least a couple sustained seasons with all of the following four factors:  1) a cup-wining team; 2) with star players; 2) playing in a great venue; 3) in a high-level league.  SKC (not incl. the Wiz), Seattle, Portland, Atlanta and LAFC all came in to the league with nice stadiums at times when the league was in a good place, and managed to win with high-quality players.  Metro/Redbull unfortunately have never got the timing right.  If they had been able to build RBA back in the era when they were still drawing 30-40k, we might still be seeing sell-outs today, but even that would be a stretch given their lackluster teams in those years and the doldrums the league went through in the early 00s.  As it is, the franchise saw 15+ years of mediocrity with no titles before recent years.  Even the fans who came out for the opening of RBA and Thierry Henry didn't stick around for that.  Obviously, the missing factor in the past few seasons is the star players, which I think is a tough task for any team in the NY market.  As good as Henry and David Villa (for NYCFC) were, both teams obviously had problems with designated player Nos. 2 and 3.   And in this league when you spend all your money on those 2 slots they better deliver because you end up with Josh Saunders in goal or Mehdy Ballouchi as your #10.  

 

So I agree it's not all about the branding/marketing.  I would like to see the franchise do more to get people to the stadium, but I don't think spending more money on ads or re-branding is going to magically make more people decide to come to games.  I think soccer fans in metro-NYC are fully aware that the Redbulls exist and that they could go to games.  There are just too many quality entertainment options to spend your money on in NYC rather than spending 5-6 hours of your weekend to see 90 minutes of a team that doesn't consistently deliver on all 4 factors above.  That said, I still go to 5-10 games a year and will continue to do so as long as I am able.



#6
Rybka

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Give them a "normal" name and the fan attendance will pop 5% at most. It's not going to make a big difference.



#7
JBigjake54

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soccer fans in metro-NYC are fully aware that the Redbulls exist and that they could go to games. 


How many individuals have attended a Metro/RB game since 1996?
Marketing is attracting, satisfying and retaining fans.
Some may have come once.
Others attend almost every home game.
How does RB turn one-timers into repeaters.
How can RB retain its core of STHs?

We are good enough to beat the best teams, and bad enough to lose to the worst teams. 


#8
Koko

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How can RB retain its core of STHs?


Belongs in the de Grandpre thread...?

#9
JBigjake54

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Belongs in the de Grandpre thread...?


Belongs in every thread!

We are good enough to beat the best teams, and bad enough to lose to the worst teams. 


#10
uptownbull

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The edible kicks in as I see the thread split *cracks knuckles* 

 

If RB ownership today changed nothing but the name, logo, and kit, yes, very little changes. 5% or less. Or maybe it sparks jersey sale insanity that opens the transfer budget a bit and gets them to follow Milo's suggestions and we get an exciting player and get on an upward attendance spiral to-- yup Im high, moving on. [editors note: you can stop reading here I've said all the rest before]

 

The *club identity* thing -  not name - is a long term, one-piece-of-the puzzle thing. Identity sets a tone, an attitude. It tells a story that people can get behind, and that story is very much about the area and people the team is supposed to represent, NOT the corporate sponsor. Would FC Barcelona still be FCB if it became FC Estrella Damm? Mostly, but a little magic would be missing. The crest wouldn't give the same feelings. Do you think Atlanta United would've stirred that city the way it did if it was Coca-Cola Atlanta? It still would've been a big thing, but that name spoke to people, and tells a story to both old black/white Atlanta and new transplant Atlanta. It gets them telling others about the team. Metro 96 tells a damn story.

 

Hardcores that post on message boards during suspended seasons, debate depth charts, and have nicknames for different formations will watch FC Ex-Lax if that's the pro club in their area, which I think skews perspective of the different ways casuals connect with teams. 

 

Think about that clean black/gold winged LA hat LAFC has. Instant iconic. A stylish thing even stylish people in a stylish city could feel geeked about - that signals THEIR THING. When I see someone in RBNY gear, I shout em out and say hey. Sometimes we start talking about the team. A LOT of people have been to an RBNY game or two, how many rock gear? My sense on that is not many. People go to one Red Sox game during freshman orientation and proudly wear that godawful B hat around for the rest of their cornball lives. Is that just about the Sox being champs? Until 2004 the B was about the lovable underdogs who just couldn't get over the hump. And it was still very popular! People that have never even been to NY wear Yankees hats? Why? Aura, story, winning, and good design that feels fly to wear. Somewhere in this clubs future, there is an iconic black/red M96 hat you see all over the place.

 

Hello! What are we even talking about here. Dope branding is the original grassroots viral marketing. Red Bull zzzz York leaves a massive amount of points on the board just in that respect. Suddenly we're pretending branding doesn't matter? In this area?? We're ignoring how much of soccer club fandom is about clubs repping their area well? Metrofanatics, please. 

 

Resisting reductionism and wanting to get back to ST:DS9, a real club identity is about actually trying to be a quality, complete product in a Metro area chock full of quality sports team products. It's a qualitative change before a quantitative one. The identity sets the tone. Sisko out.

 

tl:dr: it matters to some of us okayyyy


RED. BULL. OUT.


#11
ivo

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Think that's a possible road but not a likely or guaranteed one. For any LAFC/Barca/Yankees/Red Sox example you've given, there are a dozen other teams going in the completely opposite direction - Chivas, Mets, Nets (pre-BK), you name it. The initial gloss of NYCFCs 30+k attendances has certainly worn off, we'll see if rabid fanbases in LA and Atl stay the same when results inevitably go sour at some point (they could be Seattle-like consistent, I guess, but chances for success stories like that are quite low).

RB has a pretty cool brand identity (X sports, wingsuit flying!, SPACE JUMPS!!! ffs), it's the other ingredients like consistently spending and winning titles here that are missing. Leipzig and Salzburg are doing quite alright despite the same presumed brand issues.

The issues for NYRB are many (NJ location, getting in and out times via car or public transportation, lack of titles, big names, etc, we've certainly beaten that horse to death before). I just think RB the brand being a deal breaker is quite low on that list, especially for casual fans, that's all.

#12
sabremike

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Think that's a possible road but not a likely or guaranteed one. For any LAFC/Barca/Yankees/Red Sox example you've given, there are a dozen other teams going in the completely opposite direction - Chivas, Mets, Nets (pre-BK), you name it. The initial gloss of NYCFCs 30+k attendances has certainly worn off, we'll see if rabid fanbases in LA and Atl stay the same when results inevitably go sour at some point (they could be Seattle-like consistent, I guess, but chances for success stories like that are quite low).

RB has a pretty cool brand identity (X sports, wingsuit flying!, SPACE JUMPS!!! ffs), it's the other ingredients like consistently spending and winning titles here that are missing. Leipzig and Salzburg are doing quite alright despite the same presumed brand issues.

The issues for NYRB are many (NJ location, getting in and out times via car or public transportation, lack of titles, big names, etc, we've certainly beaten that horse to death before). I just think RB the brand being a deal breaker is quite low on that list, especially for casual fans, that's all.

Um, the Mets were almost always the most popular team in NY until the mid 90's. No team has ever owned the city like the 1986 Mets did.
Let's Go Buffalo!!!

#13
ivo

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Um, the Mets were almost always the most popular team in NY until the mid 90's. No team has ever owned the city like the 1986 Mets did.

Thanks for reinforcing my point? The next 30 years without winning have reduced them to a Jets-like joke in the NY market and a decided 2nd fiddle to the Yankees (5 WS since). Many NY fans are frontrunners and this can flip back, but you do need to win, and not just rely on nostalgia/intangibles/brand coolness which are all just a finction of winning + time when you boil down to it.

#14
JBigjake54

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When I see someone in RBNY gear, I shout em out and say hey. Sometimes we start talking about the team. A LOT of people have been to an RBNY game or two, how many rock gear?


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#15
uptownbull

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Lots of valid points against what I said. You all are great to banter with.

Re: the RB Europe examples of them doing well despite branding: vastly different context in those cities than NYC. This club has to get a LOT of things right to turn things around, and identity isn't an insignificant factor. We're trying to get people to get on a PATH to Joisey. The product has to be ESC snare drum tight and ESC songbook complete.

In addition to destroying their rep with organizational incompetence, mets also made themselves look super bush league with 8000 different uniforms and hats. "Do you like us now?" "Is this cool?" "Is this what you like?" "Weird drop shadow or no?" This area likes classic iconic sports identities that don't change with the times.

I would wear a Metrostars mask, Jake!

RED. BULL. OUT.





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