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Some academy players choose to leave


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#16
Efried

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Some players move academies because their parents' job is moved. Parents move because thier kids are on a path to pro. Parents forbid their kids to move to another country over school in the States. Parents encourage their kids to move to another country to grow their soccer skills. Parents want their kids to go to college then the pro route. Players may argue they are better off taking a HGP deal.

Every situation is a bit different. Every family dynamic is a bit different.

The concern with Red Bull is the rapid decay of the academy. You shouldn't have two academy players deemed good enough for NYRBII jumping ship the same season. The fact they got rid of the U23 team and U19 team were such poor moves. Not every player that plays in MLS will be ready at 17.

most mls teams have ditched their u-19a Philly doesnt field that team either so finding meaningful competition is tough the best kids will be ready for mls next pro and can still play some with u-17s if on the cusp. Neither kid was actually anywhere close to being good enough for Red Bull 2 white is talented but in 2 years his best position is still unknown. Philly lists him as a defender but he has shown no defensive acumen or desire anytime Ive watched him play there. Being listed on usl roster page ≠ being ready for usl

#17
Efried

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White was also commuting to training from Pennsylvania its not really surprising they switched

#18
Metrohoboken

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oh no there is another local kid (who we missed out on) - why the heck go to some club that has been in the 2nd division recently.

 

lol 

 

 

https://www.ussoccer...co-and-paraguay

 

U-20 MYNT ROSTER BY POSITION (CLUB; HOMETOWN) - REVELATIONS CUP

 

GOALKEEPERS (2): Alexander Borto (Fulham/ENG; South Plainfield, N.J.), Chris Brady (Chicago Fire FC; Naperville, Ill.)


Bradley Wright-Phillips "I prefer it at Red Bull Arena, but it was OK. I could imagine it being good for a baseball crowd.


#19
elf

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Few things.

Lederman also has Polish citizenship. He would have counted as both a domestic player AND a homegrown if he had made the grade at Barcelona. They weren't discouraging his development because he was American any more than they discouraged Messi's development because he was Argentine.

Lederman has 58 professional appearances, and last season played over 2,000 minutes for the 2nd-place finisher in Poland's top division, while making 3 appearances for the Poland U21s. He's only 22! You know who else was playing at that exact same level at 22? Luquinhas! Our second-best player this season! I'd say Lederman is doing just fine.

Sure, some players might develop better in the US. Some might develop better abroad. But you can't really know which is better for an individual player because, well, they're individuals. Everyone is different. Is Erik Palmer-Brown a better player because he stayed in Kansas rather than move to Juventus? Was Freddy Adu better off at D.C. than he would have been in the Milan academy? Would Christian Pulisic be a better player if he had joined the Union academy and followed the Aaronson path? Reyna at NYC? Those questions are completely unable to be answered, because every player's situation is so different. Same goes for someone like Lederman. You can't say that he'd have been better off in LA because no one can know that.

But, if you want to maximize the chance at having a professional career, having that Barcelona, Manchester United, Dortmund label at the top of your resume, and all the connections that go with it, gives you a much better shot than LA, New York, or Philadelphia ever has or could.


Lederman is not doing fine. He was a generational talent. How close is he to that? He was labeled as the american messi but he is not even close to being the american luq. Luq was a star in the polish league. Lederman is not. Before joining that polish team, he tried to join a team in Israel and failed. He was better prospect than dax but dax will most likely earn more money than him in his career.

Like him I could name you dozens of highly regarded prospects that became busts in europe. The whole argument that playing in europe will maximize your chances of being a pro is not true.

#20
Efried

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Lederman is not doing fine. He was a generational talent. How close is he to that? He was labeled as the american messi but he is not even close to being the american luq. Luq was a star in the polish league. Lederman is not. Before joining that polish team, he tried to join a team in Israel and failed. He was better prospect than dax but dax will most likely earn more money than him in his career.

Like him I could name you dozens of highly regarded prospects that became busts in europe. The whole argument that playing in europe will maximize your chances of being a pro is not true.

he wasnt every a generational talent he just was a young player that got into la Masia at Barcelona peak and thats all anyone knew about him. He was anointed on the single fact that he had joined Barcelona academy

#21
McSoccer

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Lederman is not doing fine. He was a generational talent. How close is he to that? He was labeled as the american messi but he is not even close to being the american luq. Luq was a star in the polish league. Lederman is not. Before joining that polish team, he tried to join a team in Israel and failed. He was better prospect than dax but dax will most likely earn more money than him in his career.

Like him I could name you dozens of highly regarded prospects that became busts in europe. The whole argument that playing in europe will maximize your chances of being a pro is not true.

You cant be a generational talent at 10.

#22
iced1776

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The whole argument that playing in europe will maximize your chances of being a pro is not true.

Elf you are ignoring one point several people have tried to make. It's not just simply setting a goal of "being a pro player". Some kids want to get to the highest level of competition as possible, as early in their career as possible. They don't just want regular playing time on a meager $100k MLS contract at 22, they want to be signing huge contracts at huge clubs at 22.

And if that is your goal, you are actually going to argue that MLS makes that more plausible than a place like Dortmund? You think they'll climb the ranks to a Champions League club faster by joining the Red Bulls academy?

They know there is risk because it's a harder path. You have acknowledged that by pointing out players who haven't hit their expected ceiling, but you have not acknowledged the higher reward if they do end up impressing at a prestigious academy.

#23
elf

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Elf you are ignoring one point several people have tried to make. It's not just simply setting a goal of "being a pro player". Some kids want to get to the highest level of competition as possible, as early in their career as possible. They don't just want regular playing time on a meager $100k MLS contract at 22, they want to be signing huge contracts at huge clubs at 22.

And if that is your goal, you are actually going to argue that MLS makes that more plausible than a place like Dortmund? You think they'll climb the ranks to a Champions League club faster by joining the Red Bulls academy?

They know there is risk because it's a harder path. You have acknowledged that by pointing out players who haven't hit their expected ceiling, but you have not acknowledged the higher reward if they do end up impressing at a prestigious academy.


If your good, you will reach the highest level regardless. However, there is a stigma against American players and whether your good or not sometimes doesnt matter. Americans have always been looked down upon when it comes to soccer. This has been reported by American coaches and American players.

Philly is currently producing the best american talent. Most of their kids in u23 teams will end up in europe and will be making money.

Adam's and aaronson did well the MLS academy structure and made it champions league.


Your taking shots at making only 100k in an MLS contract by 22 but for many of those unsuccessful prospects who ruined their career in europe will most like be out of soccer.

#24
elf

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he wasnt every a generational talent he just was a young player that got into la Masia at Barcelona peak and thats all anyone knew about him. He was anointed on the single fact that he had joined Barcelona academy


The hype was there. There are numerous articles calling him the "American Messi" and the "American Wonderboy".

#25
Efried

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The hype was there. There are numerous articles calling him the "American Messi" and the "American Wonderboy".

hype ≠ generational talent

#26
iced1776

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Your taking shots at making only 100k in an MLS contract by 22 but for many of those unsuccessful prospects who ruined their career in europe will most like be out of soccer.

 

I'd think someone who struggled to break through an elite academy would still have a place back in MLS. Chris Gloster left our academy to try out Europe, bombed, and comfortably landed back at NYCFC with a decent $240k salary. 

 

Who did you have in mind as someone who got so burnt by choosing a Euro academy over MLS that they were no longer playing pro soccer by their early 20's? I think all the guys you've called out so far are still very much playing pro ball somewhere.



#27
Paul Nasta

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Sounds like Lederman is doing OK:

 

"Now, though, Lederman is back on the up, starring for ambitious Polish league runners-up Rakow Częstochowa as one of the top midfielders in the Ekstraklasa, and with an eye on international stardom – albeit not for the Stars and Stripes."

 

https://www.goal.com...768380084bdfe5c

 

The kid is only 22, it's maybe a little early to write the post-mortem on his career.

 

This discussion relies on hypotheticals.  Nobody knows how Joe Gyau's career would have turned out had he played in MLS for a while before going to Europe.  Nobody knows how anyone's career would have turned out had they chosen a path different than the one they chose.  It's all speculation.

 

For every player who you could argue went to Europe before he was ready and ended up a "bust", there's one who you could argue never reached his potential because he didn't go to Europe and take a chance (Landon Donovan comes to mind, even though he went to Europe; his issue was not sticking it out there).  

 

Sure, Dax has had a nice career in MLS, but maybe he would have had a better career if he had gone to Europe.  Maybe he would have been a mainstay in the USMNT midfield for a decade, instead of a bit player with only 13 caps.  Maybe Ian Harkes would be starring for Celtic right now if he'd gone over there at 18, instead of spending 5 years at Wake Forest and then DCU.  We'll never know.



#28
elf

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From what I can remember...

Ismael tandir. 6'5 target forward from our academy left to sochaux. This guy was tearing up the US academy levels. He hasnt done much since he left.

Last I heard, he was in India playing soccer.

Anthony isom left rb academy to join brescia. He is no longer playing soccer.

#29
Paul Nasta

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Matt Kassell, Sacir Hot, Ben Mines.  All were highly touted youth players (Kassell and Hot both on USMNT youth teams).  All chose to stay in MLS rather than take a shot in Europe; none made it in MLS, although I guess the jury is still out re: Mines.

 

Would any of those three have had better careers had they gone to Europe to play?  We'll never know, just like we'll never know if Tandir's or Isom's career would have gone better if they stayed in the MLS system.



#30
Efried

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From what I can remember...

Ismael tandir. 6'5 target forward from our academy left to sochaux. This guy was tearing up the US academy levels. He hasnt done much since he left.

Last I heard, he was in India playing soccer.

Anthony isom left rb academy to join brescia. He is no longer playing soccer.

Brandon Allen also was tearing up the academy levels and never was an MLS level striker. Tandir has made his career pro soccer though so seems like he did just fine




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