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The never-ending Veron discussion


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#301
Koko

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I've defended him and am ready to cut bait but I feel terrible for him. What's the most consistent run of starts he's gotten? Seems like he's just broken, confidence-wise.


Not sure if the death of his father may have affected him as well. Especially since he lives so far away from his family and friends.

Some soccer pros just weren't mentally built to be so far from home. Some don't even know it themselves until they pack up all their stuff and get on a plane.

So if you relocate far from home and have trouble adjusting, and you have a huge contract relative to your teammates, AND you keep getting injured, AND your father dies...yeah I could see how that would spiral downward into a dark place you can't pull yourself out of.

Speculative of course. And I've no I'll will toward the guy. I want(ed) it to work out for him and hope nothing but the best for him moving forward. However, from a cold cut business standpoint it is zero hour.

#302
Eleazar

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had no idea about his dad. i'm glad i'm not one of the ones who's constantly trashing him endlessly on one of those FB groups.


RIP Guillermo Romulo, Alexander Francis Orig and Celenio Eleazar.

 

RIP Cesar Castello, Mike Vallo, and Glenn Stampiglia

 

"Team That I Dream Of" and "Faithful To The Colors" 

 

 


#303
Koko

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had no idea about his dad. i'm glad i'm not one of the ones who's constantly trashing him endlessly on one of those FB groups.


Happened last year just before the start of the season I believe.

#304
jerzyiroc

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I keep seeing people say that Veron is injury prone and he keeps getting injured. Am I missing something here? He was injured at the start of 2016, was rushed back and got hurt in his first game back. Then missed almost 2 months and that was it for 2016. He came back didn't get hurt again for the rest of the year. In 2017 he got hurt in the CCL game, took a long time to get back but knock on wood he's been fine. So where did this narrative of him continuously getting hurt come from? How and why am I seeing people say that he comes back for a few games then gets reinjured? That's literally never happened. But that seems to be a thing surrounding Veron and people in this fan base. Narratives and storylines have been created with basically nothing to support it. It's really odd. 

 

I also keep hearing people say that he's had chances. That's perhaps the most interesting thing, because I often wonder what are these chances people talk about. Since he came here in 2015 he has yet to start 2 games in a row. In fact, he's yet to play more than 60 minutes two games in a row. A real "chance" would be to give him a run of games. He's an expensive investment and this is MLS. You start your DPs. It's really that simple. What's funny is people are quick to say, "you have to earn that spot". Well, he did, but he got hurt. What other DP on this team would not get their spot back immediately after coming back from injury when they're healthy enough? We've had countless players this year, big players at that like Kljestan, play terribly. Yet where are people saying he's worthless and needs to go? If he got hurt and came back, he'd plug right back into the starting XI the moment he was healthy enough to. But, Veron, who is a DP, **crickets**. Grella was out for a while too with an injury that's literally not going to get better. It's a bone deformity, so at best he'll just be able to manage the paint. But you better believe Grella is already back getting significant minutes and starts again. Again, it's really odd. 


But going back to the "chances thing". Even when he has done well in his little chances he was rewarded by going back to the bench. It happened quite a few times last year. Last year he started against Portland. In that game, he created more statistical chances than literally the entire RBNY attack combined, 2 of those chances were spoon fed to I believe Grella and BWP. His reward was the bench the next game. Even that next game against Orlando he did come in as a late game sub and yet again created a few chances in that short time. His reward? The bench the next game and a pathetic 10 minute sub after that. Like 2 games later he was subbed in for BWP against LA where he scored and played VERY well that game. His reward, benched the next FOUR games, 3 of which he was a sub as a 90th minute time waster. His next start was against DCU where he again scored. His reward, benched and unused. He actually got an assist at one of the CCL games in between that period I believe. Again, his reward? Benched and late game sub for basically the rest of the regular season. Playoff time comes and he was the offensive spark late in that first leg. Was he perfect in those games he did well? No. But he's not Messi, far from it. Miles away from it. He's going to have bad moments, but ffs he had good to very good games and was always rewarded with the bench. 

This year he had that awful game against SKC along with the 10 other players but somehow he was singled out and thrown under the bus. He had a decent game in the short 7 minutes against Toronto. So for me, he's barely had real "chances" because he's yet to get a solid run of games, which is something I think literally every other MLS team would do for their investment in their DP. Yet, despite his few chances, even when he did have good moments and games he was consistently rewarded with the bench. Maybe it was that garbage unbeaten run that Jesse was blinded by that he didn't want to break. Maybe it's that he's not a great defending attacker (neither is Grella btw but that never stopped Grella from getting minutes). I don't know. I've been following this team since the old Giants stadium days and I've never been this miffed at the shit surrounding a player from both the team and fan perspectives. It's truly odd and at this point I'd be happy for him to leave. He deserves better. 



#305
McSoccer

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I keep seeing people say that Veron is injury prone and he keeps getting injured. Am I missing something here? He was injured at the start of 2016, was rushed back and got hurt in his first game back. Then missed almost 2 months and that was it for 2016. He came back didn't get hurt again for the rest of the year. In 2017 he got hurt in the CCL game, took a long time to get back but knock on wood he's been fine. So where did this narrative of him continuously getting hurt come from? How and why am I seeing people say that he comes back for a few games then gets reinjured? That's literally never happened. But that seems to be a thing surrounding Veron and people in this fan base. Narratives and storylines have been created with basically nothing to support it. It's really odd. 

 

I also keep hearing people say that he's had chances. That's perhaps the most interesting thing, because I often wonder what are these chances people talk about. Since he came here in 2015 he has yet to start 2 games in a row. In fact, he's yet to play more than 60 minutes two games in a row. A real "chance" would be to give him a run of games. He's an expensive investment and this is MLS. You start your DPs. It's really that simple. What's funny is people are quick to say, "you have to earn that spot". Well, he did, but he got hurt. What other DP on this team would not get their spot back immediately after coming back from injury when they're healthy enough? We've had countless players this year, big players at that like Kljestan, play terribly. Yet where are people saying he's worthless and needs to go? If he got hurt and came back, he'd plug right back into the starting XI the moment he was healthy enough to. But, Veron, who is a DP, **crickets**. Grella was out for a while too with an injury that's literally not going to get better. It's a bone deformity, so at best he'll just be able to manage the paint. But you better believe Grella is already back getting significant minutes and starts again. Again, it's really odd. 


But going back to the "chances thing". Even when he has done well in his little chances he was rewarded by going back to the bench. It happened quite a few times last year. Last year he started against Portland. In that game, he created more statistical chances than literally the entire RBNY attack combined, 2 of those chances were spoon fed to I believe Grella and BWP. His reward was the bench the next game. Even that next game against Orlando he did come in as a late game sub and yet again created a few chances in that short time. His reward? The bench the next game and a pathetic 10 minute sub after that. Like 2 games later he was subbed in for BWP against LA where he scored and played VERY well that game. His reward, benched the next FOUR games, 3 of which he was a sub as a 90th minute time waster. His next start was against DCU where he again scored. His reward, benched and unused. He actually got an assist at one of the CCL games in between that period I believe. Again, his reward? Benched and late game sub for basically the rest of the regular season. Playoff time comes and he was the offensive spark late in that first leg. Was he perfect in those games he did well? No. But he's not Messi, far from it. Miles away from it. He's going to have bad moments, but ffs he had good to very good games and was always rewarded with the bench. 

This year he had that awful game against SKC along with the 10 other players but somehow he was singled out and thrown under the bus. He had a decent game in the short 7 minutes against Toronto. So for me, he's barely had real "chances" because he's yet to get a solid run of games, which is something I think literally every other MLS team would do for their investment in their DP. Yet, despite his few chances, even when he did have good moments and games he was consistently rewarded with the bench. Maybe it was that garbage unbeaten run that Jesse was blinded by that he didn't want to break. Maybe it's that he's not a great defending attacker (neither is Grella btw but that never stopped Grella from getting minutes). I don't know. I've been following this team since the old Giants stadium days and I've never been this miffed at the shit surrounding a player from both the team and fan perspectives. It's truly odd and at this point I'd be happy for him to leave. He deserves better. 

Agree with most of this, but you're overlooking the fact that Grella megged an old man once and is so good using his heel to kick a soccer ball.



#306
JBigjake54

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I keep seeing people say that Veron is injury prone and he keeps getting injured. ... I also keep hearing people say that he's had chances. 

He has missed a lot of games through injury, and has never produced in a significant way when he has played.
So, it's not just "people saying".
If he was a standout, wouldn't we have seen it by now, even in limited minutes as an impact sub?

We are good enough to beat the best teams, and bad enough to lose to the worst teams. 


#307
Komba

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He has missed a lot of games through injury, and has never produced in a significant way when he has played.
So, it's not just "people saying".
If he was a standout, wouldn't we have seen it by now, even in limited minutes as an impact sub?

Not to mention a huge reason why he hasn't started several games in a row is because he usually doesn't do much when he starts, and number 2, he manages to get hurt.  Those injuries happened at times when it was clear that Marsch was going to give him a serious run of games.

 

And on top of that, if the guy was dominating in practices, he'd be playing.  Clearly he's not.  I think the eye test says he can't play well enough.  He slows the game down once he gets the ball, he's never on the same page as his teammates, and he's never really produced significantly with any team he's played for.  He just has some raw traits (speed, size, skill) that get people excited.  Doesn't seem to think the game at a high level, both with anticipatory defense or offensive movement.  

 

 

I'm confident enough knowing that wherever Veron goes after this, he's not going to be a difference maker.  MLS or not MLS.  He may be Grella level decent at the very most.



#308
McSoccer

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Not to mention a huge reason why he hasn't started several games in a row is because he usually doesn't do much when he starts, and number 2, he manages to get hurt.  Those injuries happened at times when it was clear that Marsch was going to give him a serious run of games.

 

And on top of that, if the guy was dominating in practices, he'd be playing.  Clearly he's not.  I think the eye test says he can't play well enough.  He slows the game down once he gets the ball, he's never on the same page as his teammates, and he's never really produced significantly with any team he's played for.  He just has some raw traits (speed, size, skill) that get people excited.  Doesn't seem to think the game at a high level, both with anticipatory defense or offensive movement.  

Kind of a sad practice if Grella is coming out on top consistently.  He's the only winger to start the last two games and ranged from being garbage against TFC to ok in the NE match.  If that's the guy that's winning playing time in training then either Iverson was right about practice or we are in desperate need of an upgrade.



#309
McSoccer

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He has missed a lot of games through injury, and has never produced in a significant way when he has played.
So, it's not just "people saying".
If he was a standout, wouldn't we have seen it by now, even in limited minutes as an impact sub?

Not saying a lot, but he was our best offensive player in the Montreal series.  And his minutes last season were mostly late game subs.  He scored in both the LA and DC matches last season, which were the only two he played significant minutes.  And right back to the bench after both games.  He's not a DP, but he has not been given the time on the pitch that guys like Grella have.



#310
defendyourself

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As many alluded to, the reason we have to move on from Veron is (whether or not you think he has gotten a fair shot, and/or is good enough is irrelevant), that our coach does not trust him after two years.  Same guy who threw Royer in this season, Muyl last year, gave Gulbrandsen some appearances, does not trust Veron. 

With that being the case you need to get the coach someone he is comfortable playing.  



#311
McSoccer

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As many alluded to, the reason we have to move on from Veron is (whether or not you think he has gotten a fair shot, and/or is good enough is irrelevant), that our coach does not trust him after two years.  Same guy who threw Royer in this season, Muyl last year, gave Gulbrandsen some appearances, does not trust Veron. 

With that being the case you need to get the coach someone he is comfortable playing.  

Which is why I don't understand Marsch keeping him here this season.  He didn't give Veron any chances down the regular season stretch, starting Grella and Muyl every game after Royer went down.  And then went to him out of desperation in the playoffs.  Sucks for Veron that Damari missed that chance in Game 1 and Sacha didn't get convert the PK in Game 2.  If either happened, people may have looked back at what Veron did in the playoffs differently.



#312
RandomHero

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I never understood why he didn't give Veron more RBII games coming back from injury to get him up to speed.



#313
McSoccer

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I never understood why he didn't give Veron more RBII games coming back from injury to get him up to speed.

At the start of 2016 it was because we were so bad.  I'm really not trying to defend Veron, but Marsch's handling of him has been poor.  He rushed him back in early 2016 because we were shit and Veron's injury came back.  Then he couldn't find Veron minutes coming down the stretch of the regular season, even after our best winger, Royer was out with a knock, and then went to him in desperation in the Montreal series when his boys, Grella & Muyl, shit the bed.  Veron has not been great, but neither has Jesse in regards to integrating him.



#314
Captain Koolaid

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The facts are clear. Not Grella nor Muyl would have succeeded or been successful with the amount of minutes and "consecutive minutes" Veron has been given. And when he has scored or assisted in one of those cameo appearances its shoved under the rug because he doesn't do it all the time. Hey I believe he should be gone and I'm sure he will be great somewhere else but it is clear Jesse never trusted him and most likely never will. Is he a Messi? of course not but I feel he could have contributed more if more faith would have been given to him. Should he be gone? Yes. Would rather spend that cap money on one or two players who will actually contribute and Jesse trusts. But come on let's be fair, it seems like that was one of Curtis' players not Jesse and it shows.




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#315
iced1776

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 Is he a Messi? of course not but I feel he could have contributed more if more faith would have been given to him.

 

Injuries pretty much nip this narrative in the bud. Dude has started 9 games in his two years here, and finished zero. Twice he's had to be taken off before half time.






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