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Thelwell has to answer for a lot


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#256
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There isn't really a recipe for continued success in MLS. Seattle is the only team that has really figured it out and it's largely because they don't miss with their DPs and they continually develop young talent. The rules are in place to create artificial parity. 

What if Seattle just stopped the whole DP thing, and just developed talent.... thats what RB is doing. On top of that, once RB develops a talent, they sell him immediately.   

 

I feel like a crazy person. The roster is sub-par because they don't care about winning, only development. RBNY = FC Liefering in the hierarchy. It's appalling to me.   

 

As far as artificial parity, this isnt the NFL where the worse team get the best players next year. This is just a cap that you can circumvent with DP slots. If you don't spend on DPs, then you won't win. 



#257
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This is the hierarchy right now: 

 

RBL => RBS => FCL, RBNY, RBII, RBB 



#258
RedBullScouse

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.   

 

I feel like a crazy person. The roster is sub-par because they don't care about winning, only development.

If that's all they cared about, we'd have seen Sowe yesterday instead of Harper and Barlow.   Clark would be getting way more minutes.    Davis wouldn't play every minute of every game.    


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#259
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If that's all they cared about, we'd have seen Sowe yesterday instead of Harper and Barlow.   Clark would be getting way more minutes.    Davis wouldn't play every minute of every game.    

1) Harper IS a development pick up.

 

2) Thelwell builds the roster per RB guidelines, but Struber picks the starters. 



#260
RedBullScouse

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1) Harper IS a development pick up.

 

2) Thelwell builds the roster per RB guidelines, but Struber picks the starters. 

A) Then Harper would be playing more.   He hasn't developed in the least, and actually seems to have regressed.  

B) That's nonsense.   Struber answers to Thelwell.   If their mission is purely development, then Struber would be as accountable for that as anyone.   

 

If the argument is "we suck because we only care about development,"   then what's the argument for why we suck at development?


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#261
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Then Harper would be playing more.   

That's nonsense.   Struber answers to Thelwell.   If their mission is purely development, then Struber would be as accountable for that as anyone.   

No coach/manager is getting dictated starting line up and sticking around. Stuber is here to win (even if his tactics are still a work in progress). Struber needs to win regardless of Thelwell.  He's given a roster (that he had some input into) and will use those players how he sees fit. In Struber's mind, Barlow>Sowe at this point in time. 

 

I like Thelwell. I think if DPs were brought in in the summer to supplement the roster at key positions, this could be a winning roster. Without those sorts of additions, this is a development roster.    

 

No one can look at our roster and say it is not a development centered roster - you can pick a couple anomalies out, but thats all they are. This topic is confusing to me. Its so clear to me that this roster is primarily about developing youth and not primarily about winning, that if you don't see it, I'm not sure how I could convince you.    

 

No excuse for the 2nd wealthiest owner, who has more experience building soccer teams than perhaps any organization in the world, to have a team currently missing MLS playoffs. 

 

Side note, not too pertinent, but you can't prove your point that Thelwell's roster is not only about development by citing both Harper playing and him not playing. 



#262
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If the argument is "we suck because we only care about development,"   then what's the argument for why we suck at development?

Full circle.

 

1) We suck because we only care about development.

 

2) We suck at development because you can't run an RBS style youth development org in a limited roster, salary cap league while concurrently playing money-ball with youth player acquisitions. 

 

 

P.S. sorry, I am bitchy after watching USMNT play last night. 



#263
thoward18

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Full circle.

 

1) We suck because we only care about development.

 

2) We suck at development because you can't run an RBS style youth development org in a limited roster, salary cap league while concurrently playing money-ball with youth player acquisitions. 

 

 

P.S. sorry, I am bitchy after watching USMNT play last night. 

Bullshit. FC Dallas suck while only focusing on development, but they've basically built a silk road from their academy to Europe. 

 

And what talent have we sold to Europe, exactly? Adams and Miazga are the only ones. They offered Miazga a DP contract to stay while it's a miracle we held onto Adams as long as we did. Which young players have we sold that you wish we had kept?



#264
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No one can look at our roster and say it is not a development centered roster - you can pick a couple anomalies out, but thats all they are. This topic is confusing to me. Its so clear to me that this roster is primarily about developing youth and not primarily about winning, that if you don't see it, I'm not sure how I could convince you.    

 

So I know this might be a naive take because this sort of messaging can be so carefully managed, but based on the comments Thelwell made to Once A Metro in his recent interview I came away with the sense that he may genuinely believe that a roster of early 20-somethings is legitimately what gives you the best chance of winning.

 

I still don't know if I fully believe that, and I certainly don't agree with it, but I'm starting to lean a little further away from the idea that he's been handed orders from Papa Red Bull to develop and sell players without a care in the world to winning games.



#265
elf

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How many 2.5 mil duds have they had? 
MLS doesn't allow you to have wasted money. 

red bull doesnt havento sign them to the MLS squad. It could be to rb2.

#266
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Bullshit. FC Dallas suck while only focusing on development, but they've basically built a silk road from their academy to Europe. 

Not bullshit. FC Dallas is regional youth academy development. Dallas happens to be in great location with little regional competition for players. RBS style development is acquisition of players from other leagues. RBS has a big payroll (relative to rest of league) and some of those players will pay off handsomely and fund the rest of the operation.  

And what talent have we sold to Europe, exactly? Adams and Miazga are the only ones. They offered Miazga a DP contract to stay while it's a miracle we held onto Adams as long as we did. Which young players have we sold that you wish we had kept?

Ralf Ragnick (sp?) specifically said that RBNY need to send a player like Adams to Liepzig each year. He indicated that RBNY was not developing enough. Thelwell indicated just recently that players are being development for bigger and better things. 



#267
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So I know this might be a naive take because this sort of messaging can be so carefully managed, but based on the comments Thelwell made to Once A Metro in his recent interview I came away with the sense that he may genuinely believe that a roster of early 20-somethings is legitimately what gives you the best chance of winning.

 

I still don't know if I fully believe that, and I certainly don't agree with it, but I'm starting to lean a little further away from the idea that he's been handed orders from Papa Red Bull to develop and sell players without a care in the world to winning games.

I believe that he believes it. And I believe Papa Red Bull gave him the job because they want to believe it too. I do think he has good ideas, but he needs to have more flexibility in getting seasoned players. Those seasoned players cost money.  



#268
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Bullshit. FC Dallas suck while only focusing on development, but they've basically built a silk road from their academy to Europe. 

 

And what talent have we sold to Europe, exactly? Adams and Miazga are the only ones. They offered Miazga a DP contract to stay while it's a miracle we held onto Adams as long as we did. Which young players have we sold that you wish we had kept?

Tim Ream would like a word.


"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." - Iron Mike

 

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I need my plaid pitch.

"It goes without saying that when things don't go your way they just don't go your way. " - JCO

"He can't kick with his left foot, he can't tackle, he can't head the ball and he doesn't score many goals. Apart from that, he's all right.”
George Best, on David Beckham


#269
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I think the issue is RBNY havent helped themselves figure out if its a experience issue, a talent issue, or both. Theres no hypothesis being tested by the current squad, the squad is both very young and short on high level talent.

As much as Id like to see some experience added this winter to join Davis and Long, who I assume are going to be the lone surviving elder statesmen (although that isnt a guarantee), it goes against everything we know about Red Bull and Thelwells recent comments.

So its time to test the other half of the hypothesis. Are we going to see the other 2 DP spots filled this winter by Klimala level or better type players, or are we going to see more of the speculative buys and hope someone in the current attacking group develops into a consistent and productive performer?

Theres plenty of ammunition for people who point to development taking priority over winning if we see the latter happen, its hopeful rather than proactive.

Omir, Wiki, Amaya, Clark, Harper have had an entire season to earn minutes and impress Struber. Only Wiki and Omir have done that to some extent, and there still isnt enough production from them to justify not markedly improving in that area.

#270
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So I know this might be a naive take because this sort of messaging can be so carefully managed, but based on the comments Thelwell made to Once A Metro in his recent interview I came away with the sense that he may genuinely believe that a roster of early 20-somethings is legitimately what gives you the best chance of winning.
 
I still don't know if I fully believe that, and I certainly don't agree with it, but I'm starting to lean a little further away from the idea that he's been handed orders from Papa Red Bull to develop and sell players without a care in the world to winning games.


You caveated your post heavily so I'm sure you realize this, but just to spell out the alternative directly: even if Thelwell didn't believe we could win with our mostly young roster, he still would have said the exact same thing. Whether it was a RB directive or his personal choice, that's the approach we went for, so saying anything different would be admitting he messed up big time.




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