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Royer targeted by LASK Linz?


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#31
RedBullScouse

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Royer has at most a season or two left. I would prefer to sell and capture the $$$ to bring in players for needed positions. If the money is not more than 4 or 5m then he should stay.

The young wingers could produce a 7g and 4a season if they were given a chance.

The priority should be a RB/LB, FC, CM and another CB if Long leaves.
 

He wouldn't get anything close to 4 or 5m


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#32
elf

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Replacing our most consistent player for the past couple years with a a cast of unproven players/ players who shouldn't be starting is a recipe for disaster. Are you sure you aren't Hamlet or Armas?

Pretty sure... hamlet is still trying to figure out how to use a phone and armas is too busy laying out tactics and overthinking on how he should drink coffee.

As for replacing the most consistent player with unproven guys, in a salary cap league the team has to do this to stay relevant. Royer is a great player but the depth at the winger position is good enough to make this move.

The team has other urgent needs

#33
Komba

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Replacing our most consistent player for the past couple years with a a cast of unproven players/ players who shouldn't be starting is a recipe for disaster. Are you sure you aren't Hamlet or Armas?

The bigger disaster is doing so too late and removing any possibility of compensation.  BWP is the best example of that.

 

Asset management is everything in sports, especially when you're playing moneyball or dealing with a salary cap.  This team can't survive unless it's highest paid players are its best players.

 

 

Royer is an absolute warrior and I'm a huge fan of his (guy was our most valuable player last season) but he's going to be 30 years old and he's not the most mobile guy to begin with.  And as we seen with BWP, these dropoffs don't happen slowly, they can be immediate.



#34
iced1776

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The young wingers could produce a 7g and 4a season if they were given a chance.

 

They've all been given a chance, they've all failed to even come close to the pretty low bar you're setting with 7g/4a. Not everyone who succeeds in USL will become the next Miazga or Adams, most of them will flare out. I think Red Bull fans have become a little spoiled in our expectations of the youth pipeline. Its supposed to be a way to supplement the roster, it's not supposed to be the roster.

 

But even if we think any of those guys can hit those meager expectations, that's an 8 goal drop-off from Royer's season. Eight fewer goals in the season is a good number of wins that just turned to draws, draws that turn to losses. There's an argument to be made that we don't even make the playoffs in 2019 with that sort of drop.



#35
elf

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They've all been given a chance, they've all failed to even come close to the pretty low bar you're setting with 7g/4a. Not everyone who succeeds in USL will become the next Miazga or Adams, most of them will flare out. I think Red Bull fans have become a little spoiled in our expectations of the youth pipeline. Its supposed to be a way to supplement the roster, it's not supposed to be the roster.
 
But even if we think any of those guys can hit those meager expectations, that's an 8 goal drop-off from Royer's season. Eight fewer goals in the season is a good number of wins that just turned to draws, draws that turn to losses. There's an argument to be made that we don't even make the playoffs in 2019 with that sort of drop.


Thats an assumption that the team doesnt perform better defensively and that other players dont score more goals.

Trust the process that got us 2 supporter shields

#36
ivo

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The bigger disaster is doing so too late and removing any possibility of compensation.  BWP is the best example of that.

 

Asset management is everything in sports, especially when you're playing moneyball or dealing with a salary cap.  This team can't survive unless it's highest paid players are its best players.

 

 

Royer is an absolute warrior and I'm a huge fan of his (guy was our most valuable player last season) but he's going to be 30 years old and he's not the most mobile guy to begin with.  And as we seen with BWP, these dropoffs don't happen slowly, they can be immediate.

 

 

On the other hand, if you actually did this with BWP 4 years ago, you would have missed out on 70+ goals... Timing is everything, getting that right is far from easy.

 

I'd be okay with parting ways with Royer if another high-caliber winger is signed. Replacing one of our only difference makers in attack by a USL-level committee is not a particularly enticing proposition.



#37
elf

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He wouldn't get anything close to 4 or 5m


Thats fine as long as they gives us tetteh or michorl as part of the transfer.

#38
Sasa Curcic's Watch

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Royer is not a question mark, hes proved he can consistently contribute for a few years on end now. It's not time to trade a certain contributor and a key piece for uncertainty. 

 

We know the RB model is to get rid of a player a year early rather than a year late but I don't think that it's that time for Royer yet. And when we did it before we had a plan - Adams replacing Dax or Kaku coming in for Sacha. There's no one in our pipeline to replace Royer's production. Let's focus on improving the weak areas in our roster rather than moving something that is working. 



#39
iced1776

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Thats an assumption that the team doesnt perform better defensively and that other players dont score more goals.

Trust the process that got us 2 supporter shields

 

We're talking about a like for like swap for Royer, why would you assume anyone else on the team would perform any differently?

 

One of our shields was won with the likes of Henry and Cahill, the other with a generational talent from the academy and some top end players like BWP, Kaku, and Royer.

 

Replacing top end players with academy guys who are decidedly NOT generational talents is not the process that won us shields. That's the process that almost made us miss the playoffs in 2017.



#40
RedBullScouse

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Thats fine as long as they gives us tetteh or michorl as part of the transfer.


Ain't happening

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." - Iron Mike

 

Bitch covered my plaid?
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"It goes without saying that when things don't go your way they just don't go your way. " - JCO

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#41
elf

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We're talking about a like for like swap for Royer, why would you assume anyone else on the team would perform any differently?
 
One of our shields was won with the likes of Henry and Cahill, the other with a generational talent from the academy and some top end players like BWP, Kaku, and Royer.
 
Replacing top end players with academy guys who are decidedly NOT generational talents is not the process that won us shields. That's the process that almost made us miss the playoffs in 2017.


The more this teams sells. The more money it will have to subsidize salaries (keep more players) and make big transfer buys. For more roster stability and depth... these type of sales need to happen. And like i said before, we have okay depth at this position so the risk is worth it.

Its common sense that the shift of the attack will change if royer is not playing. Other players could pick up the slack by scoring an extra goal, take the pks or providing an extra assist.

As for the shield, i was referring to the last 2. Specifically the 2015 team. We won the shield with sasha, bwp and dax being the core 3 and a lot of fringe/unknown players. I wouldnt consider the core 3 to be generational talents but pieces that fit perfectly on how rbny played.

https://en.m.wikiped...ed_Bulls_season

As long as rbny fixes the RB position and adds another central midfielder to help with transition offense/possession then we will do fine next season.

#42
iced1776

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The more this teams sells. The more money it will have to subsidize salaries (keep more players) and make big transfer buys. For more roster stability and depth... these type of sales need to happen. And like i said before, we have okay depth at this position so the risk is worth it.
 

 

We don't need roster flexibility and depth right now, we're not even maximizing the resources at our disposal today with unused DP spots and unused TAM. We could very easily sign a top end player without have to sell anyone on the roster. 

 

In a perfect world where Red Bull is actually spending as much as it could, and spending on quality players, you'd be correct. You seem to have more faith in Hamlett to move that direction than I do. I thought you meant that a straight swap of Royer for Muyl/Etienne/Omir was good enough to keep this team at a high level, and I don't think that's the case.



#43
Grelladinho

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The more this teams sells. The more money it will have to subsidize salaries (keep more players) and make big transfer buys. For more roster stability and depth... these type of sales need to happen. And like i said before, we have okay depth at this position so the risk is worth it.

Its common sense that the shift of the attack will change if royer is not playing. Other players could pick up the slack by scoring an extra goal, take the pks or providing an extra assist.

As for the shield, i was referring to the last 2. Specifically the 2015 team. We won the shield with sasha, bwp and dax being the core 3 and a lot of fringe/unknown players. I wouldnt consider the core 3 to be generational talents but pieces that fit perfectly on how rbny played.

https://en.m.wikiped...ed_Bulls_season

As long as rbny fixes the RB position and adds another central midfielder to help with transition offense/possession then we will do fine next season.

Red Bull no longer makes big buys for this team.

Regardless of whether they keep Royer or not, the only new players coming in through the door this offseason are scrubs from the academy.

Your 'sell Royer to raise cash for new signings' point makes no sense because the team doesn't operate that way anymore. As proven by the Tyler Adams sale, the fees are useless since they are only going into Red Bull's pockets.

#44
Komba

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Royer's value will never be higher than it is now I don't think.  Don't see him, especially in that position, putting up numbers like this season.  He's not fleet a foot either, and MLS constantly improves.  The biggest improvement in the league is athleticism/quickness and guys like Royer struggle there.  Royer is not a good passer of the ball so when his physical ability leaves, he loses a lot.



#45
Antonius Block

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How did the team do when olave, henry, dax, Sasha, Felipe, and Sam left the team?

I was thinking about this the other day.  Here is my estimation of how the team has done at replacing its top players over the last four years or so.

 

2015 Miazga - Replaced by Gideon Baah. Major downgrade.

 

2016 McCarty - Replaced by Tyler Adams from Academy.  Clear Upgrade.

 

2016 Sam - Replaced by Royer.  Upgrade.

 

2017 Kljestan - Replaced by Kaku.  Downgrade.  Kljestan had 45 goals and assists and in his last two seasons with Red Bull.  Kaku has 31 goals and assists in his first two seasons with Red Bull.

 

2018 Felipe - Replaced by Rzatkowski. Downgrade.

 

2019 Adams - Replaced by CCJ who was already with the team and no one was brought in.  Very clear Downgrade.

 

The only times the team has replaced an important player with a better players is when they brought in Royer and when they had the greatest talent ever produced by a US MLS academy ready and waiting.  We clearly do not have anyone in the academy who will be better than Royer by next season, much less a Tyler Adams level talent. Basically the only times we upgrade a position in a position is get lucky and have a generation talent or buy Danny Royer.

 

The last time the team legitimately upgraded a position through bringing in a new player was when they brought in Royer.  That does not give me hope that getting rid of Royer will lead to improvement, unless we can somehow bring in a younger cloned version of Royer or put him in some sort of time machine and reacquire him.

 

All these people who say sell high are assuming the team will be able to reinvest in an equal or superior player.  That is not at all a safe assumption as past precedent demonstrates the team usually fails to do this. 

 

A bird in hand is worth two in the bush.  Royer is in hand.  There may be Royers in the bush but I have no faith in the team's ability to capture those Royers in the bush.


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