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Loans within the league


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#1
McSoccer

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Wolly is unbelievable. Legend.

I'm sold on Armas now, but playoff games like this one are why I wanted Woly to be the first team coach.

 

Watched this game from start to finish.  Such a fan of Yanes.  That kid is an MLS player.  THe only thing that sucks is that he plays the same position as the best left back in the league.  Where someone like Kutler is really good on the ball, he's just not a good defender. Yanes actually is a good defender but he's also a very smooth passer.  Athletically isn't amazing, but definitely good enough for MLS.

MLS clubs as a whole need to start loaning players like Yanes out to other MLS clubs.  Send him to a team out West.  Then if Taxi stays, they can make the move permanent.  If Taxi does make a move to Europe in the next few years, bring Yanes back (if he's playing well).  I say this knowing we've done it a few times and it hasn't worked out, at least in terms of getting guys like Meara and Allen MLS minutes.



#2
RedBullScouse

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I'm sold on Armas now, but playoff games like this one are why I wanted Woly to be the first team coach.

 

MLS clubs as a whole need to start loaning players like Yanes out to other MLS clubs.  Send him to a team out West.  Then if Taxi stays, they can make the move permanent.  If Taxi does make a move to Europe in the next few years, bring Yanes back (if he's playing well).  I say this knowing we've done it a few times and it hasn't worked out, at least in terms of getting guys like Meara and Allen MLS minutes.

I think we would rather have a guy develop at a lower level, but within our system, then to play at a higher level but under a different system


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#3
McSoccer

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I think we would rather have a guy develop at a lower level, but within our system, then to play at a higher level but under a different system

At some point though, these guys are going to outgrow USL competition.  I have know idea of where Yanes is in terms of his development, and if if would make sense for him, but at some point we're going to have Academy guys that can't get a playing time here and are being held back by USL competition.  Those guys are going to need to be sold or loaned out.



#4
RedBullScouse

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At some point though, these guys are going to outgrow USL competition.  I have know idea of where Yanes is in terms of his development, and if if would make sense for him, but at some point we're going to have Academy guys that can't get a playing time here and are being held back by USL competition.  Those guys are going to need to be sold or loaned out.

That would be a good problem to have.


"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." - Iron Mike

 

Bitch covered my plaid?
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"It goes without saying that when things don't go your way they just don't go your way. " - JCO

"He can't kick with his left foot, he can't tackle, he can't head the ball and he doesn't score many goals. Apart from that, he's all right.”
George Best, on David Beckham


#5
Voice of Reason II

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At some point though, these guys are going to outgrow USL competition.  I have know idea of where Yanes is in terms of his development, and if if would make sense for him, but at some point we're going to have Academy guys that can't get a playing time here and are being held back by USL competition.  Those guys are going to need to be sold or loaned out.

Is Yanes good enough to displace Lade? If he is already or close to it why would you want to loan him away? We learned with the RB position that depth can suddenly disappear. Kemar takes a beating. There is not a game where he doesn't come off the field at least briefly. Why loan away your potential back up? And I am not really talking Kemar here, he is just an example. 



#6
McSoccer

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Is Yanes good enough to displace Lade? If he is already or close to it why would you want to loan him away? We learned with the RB position that depth can suddenly disappear. Kemar takes a beating. There is not a game where he doesn't come off the field at least briefly. Why loan away your potential back up? And I am not really talking Kemar here, he is just an example. 

We've been getting rid of old players to make room for young players.  But, what happens when young players are ready, and the guy in front of them is 26 not 30+ like Dax and Sacha were?

 

I can't comment Yanes because I haven't watched him enough to make a judgement.

 

But as a hypothetical, you would loan Yanes out if he was significantly better than Lade, but not quite as good as Taxi, and deserves to a starting LB in MLS.  First, it's the right thing to do by the player.  Second, if you stick him behind Taxi, you risk losing him on a free the way SKC lost Palmer-Brown.  Lade did not play this season to make a starting MLS LB.  Again, I'm not saying Yanes fits this description.  It's just a hypothetical.



#7
Voice of Reason II

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We've been getting rid of old players to make room for young players.  But, what happens when young players are ready, and the guy in front of them is 26 not 30+ like Dax and Sacha were?

 

I can't comment Yanes because I haven't watched him enough to make a judgement.

 

But as a hypothetical, you would loan Yanes out if he was significantly better than Lade, but not quite as good as Taxi, and deserves to a starting LB in MLS.  First, it's the right thing to do by the player.  Second, if you stick him behind Taxi, you risk losing him on a free the way SKC lost Palmer-Brown.  Lade did not play this season to make a starting MLS LB.  Again, I'm not saying Yanes fits this description.  It's just a hypothetical.

And I'm pointing out that any starter could be injured at any time. You want a good player who can step in with as minimal a drop off as possible. 

 

We are never going to be able to keep everyone we develop, but also not all of them successfully make the jump. 

 

My philosophy is hold onto players as long as possible. Meara worked out as a loan. I am not entirely against it, but not at risk to our depth.



#8
Eleazar

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From what I recall, Yanes can play either outside back position. I'm pretty sure in that both Duncan and Yanes will be competing for the starting RB position one Murillo gets sold. The versatility of Yanes is a must have, and we're gonna need him. 


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#9
McSoccer

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And I'm pointing out that any starter could be injured at any time. You want a good player who can step in with as minimal a drop off as possible. 

 

We are never going to be able to keep everyone we develop, but also not all of them successfully make the jump. 

 

My philosophy is hold onto players as long as possible. Meara worked out as a loan. I am not entirely against it, but not at risk to our depth.

I see, hold players that are starting MLS caliber back by either keeping them in the inferior USL or on the bench.  Why not hold onto Dax and Sacha then?  They'd be great backups for Adams and Kaku...



#10
Voice of Reason II

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I see, hold players that are starting MLS caliber back by either keeping them in the inferior USL or on the bench.  Why not hold onto Dax and Sacha then?  They'd be great backups for Adams and Kaku...

Haha, don't be thick. Between salary cap and roster considerations of course not every player on the 30 will be of the same quality. If a player is unlikely to se the pitch during the season you might loan them out. But your key back up? Never.



#11
McSoccer

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Haha, don't be thick. Between salary cap and roster considerations of course not every player on the 30 will be of the same quality. If a player is unlikely to se the pitch during the season you might loan them out. But your key back up? Never.

Thick? I was joking, about Dax & Sacha, but the point still stands. If a Davis level player comes up now, you cant just keep him the bench behind an in his prime Sean Davis. That would be a dick move to the player.

#12
gravediGGer

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You really don't realize this is a business and everyone is waiting for an opportunity to play and show what they can do. It's not mistreating a good player to have them sit on the bench of a really good first team and train with them. Plenty of great players sitting on benches waiting for their turn, ones that can't wait and are so sure that they have to play don't last long at any team. We have something different here and I think the players know they will get their chance with the first team of that keep working and making the most of their opportunities. Or you have Moreno and many others who feel they should play and play now so they leave the usl or academy in search of greener pastures and usually they fizzle out chasing what they feel they deserve.

Loans within the league are rare and probably for a reason, it might make sense from time to time but I don't see a change where they are common as you would like to see.

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#13
McSoccer

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You really don't realize this is a business and everyone is waiting for an opportunity to play and show what they can do. It's not mistreating a good player to have them sit on the bench of a really good first team and train with them. Plenty of great players sitting on benches waiting for their turn, ones that can't wait and are so sure that they have to play don't last long at any team. We have something different here and I think the players know they will get their chance with the first team of that keep working and making the most of their opportunities. Or you have Moreno and many others who feel they should play and play now so they leave the usl or academy in search of greener pastures and usually they fizzle out chasing what they feel they deserve.

Loans within the league are rare and probably for a reason, it might make sense from time to time but I don't see a change where they are common as you would like to see.

I know it's a business.  I'm not suggesting you give up these guys on loan for free; I'd expect to get allocation money back.

 

And, I'm not saying you can't have a kid sit on the bench for a year or two.  But what happens when it's year three?  Would you keep a Sean Davis on the bench another four years if Dax was 26 instead of 30?  The fact that loans within the league are rare doesn't mean that's the right way.  Academies were rare a few years ago.  Teams playing their homegrowns is rare now.  Red Bull have shown both those ideas were good ones.  They've even been ahead of the curve on the concept of loaning out high level USL players (Meara & Allen).

 

I have know idea if any of the USL guys coming up are on the level of Adams or Davis, or even Muyl.  If they are, they're going to face a huge hurdle given that the guys in front of them will just be entering their prime, not at the end of it like Dax and Sacha.  I think you are wasting an asset if you have a player that could start on a lot of other MLS teams and he's riding the bench for a second or third year.  Loan him out and put the allocation into a starter.



#14
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I know it's a business.  I'm not suggesting you give up these guys on loan for free; I'd expect to get allocation money back.

 

And, I'm not saying you can't have a kid sit on the bench for a year or two.  But what happens when it's year three?  Would you keep a Sean Davis on the bench another four years if Dax was 26 instead of 30?  The fact that loans within the league are rare doesn't mean that's the right way.  Academies were rare a few years ago.  Teams playing their homegrowns is rare now.  Red Bull have shown both those ideas were good ones.  They've even been ahead of the curve on the concept of loaning out high level USL players (Meara & Allen).

 

I have know idea if any of the USL guys coming up are on the level of Adams or Davis, or even Muyl.  If they are, they're going to face a huge hurdle given that the guys in front of them will just be entering their prime, not at the end of it like Dax and Sacha.  I think you are wasting an asset if you have a player that could start on a lot of other MLS teams and he's riding the bench for a second or third year.  Loan him out and put the allocation into a starter.

These kids don't have perpetual contracts.  They can leave on their own after a few years at most.


"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." - Iron Mike

 

Bitch covered my plaid?
The sorrow inside me grows.
I need my plaid pitch.

"It goes without saying that when things don't go your way they just don't go your way. " - JCO

"He can't kick with his left foot, he can't tackle, he can't head the ball and he doesn't score many goals. Apart from that, he's all right.”
George Best, on David Beckham


#15
McSoccer

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These kids don't have perpetual contracts.  They can leave on their own after a few years at most.

Exactly, so if you don't find a place for them to play, there's a risk they'll leave for free like Palmer-Brown.  Then, whatever money the team invested in their development I stone.  You might get a guy to sign if he knows he'll go out on loan and have a shot to play now and have the ability to come back to Red Bull in the future.






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