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What does Ali think about Open Cup failure?


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#1
JBigjake54

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What does Ali Curtis think about this?

He brought in his own coach & had a lengthy plan for success & glory.

Petke won the Shield in Year One & beat DC in the playoff in Year Two.

That was viewed as Not Good Enough.  No cups.

Marsch won the Shield in Year One.

Halfway through Season Two, RB are now out of USOC. 

RB are 10th in PPG (Points Per Game).  The Shield looks unlikely.

All that is left is MLS Cup.  Anyone confident that this is the year? 

I'm not hoping that RB fails to win the Shield or MLS Cup.

I just not confident that we can do either.

For >20 years, I've been traveling to away matches, to watch the team lose in the USOC.

This year was no different, on the field.  At least a bunch of us hit Tony Luke's afterwards.

Props to the 100+ who made the trek to Chester. :cheers:

See you Sunday. 


We are good enough to beat the best teams, and bad enough to lose to the worst teams. 


#2
RedBullScouse

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What does Ali Curtis think about this?

He brought in his own coach & had a lengthy plan for success & glory.

Petke won the Shield in Year One & beat DC in the playoff in Year Two.

That was viewed as Not Good Enough.  No cups.

Marsch won the Shield in Year One.

Halfway through Season Two, RB are now out of USOC. 

RB are 10th in PPG (Points Per Game).  The Shield looks unlikely.

All that is left is MLS Cup.  Anyone confident that this is the year? 

I'm not hoping that RB fails to win the Shield or MLS Cup.

I just not confident that we can do either.

For >20 years, I've been traveling to away matches, to watch the team lose in the USOC.

This year was no different, on the field.  At least a bunch of us hit Tony Luke's afterwards.

Props to the 100+ who made the trek to Chester. :cheers:

See you Sunday. 

Are you forgetting Champions League?


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#3
tynian16

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What does Ali Curtis think about this?

He brought in his own coach & had a lengthy plan for success & glory.

Petke won the Shield in Year One & beat DC in the playoff in Year Two.

That was viewed as Not Good Enough.  No cups.

Marsch won the Shield in Year One.

Halfway through Season Two, RB are now out of USOC. 

RB are 10th in PPG (Points Per Game).  The Shield looks unlikely.

All that is left is MLS Cup.  Anyone confident that this is the year? 

I'm not hoping that RB fails to win the Shield or MLS Cup.

I just not confident that we can do either.

For >20 years, I've been traveling to away matches, to watch the team lose in the USOC.

This year was no different, on the field.  At least a bunch of us hit Tony Luke's afterwards.

Props to the 100+ who made the trek to Chester. :cheers:

See you Sunday. 

Did Curtis actually say that wasn't good enough?  I thought it was a situation where he wanted his own guy.  Similar to how every GM in every sport operates.  If Curtis is going to be judged, he wants to at least have somebody he trusts in charge.

 

RB should have had 3-4 goals in the first half, but Marsch can't be on the field finishing.  

 

This league is always a crap shoot for the most part.  Get some supporter's shields if you can, make the playoffs, and hope for the best.  In my mind, the #1 priority for this year was advancing in Champs league.



#4
JBigjake54

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Marsch can't win the Champions League this year.  Only advance out of the group stage.

Considering our history in cups, including our previous CL foray, what are the chances?

What happens If he somehow manages to do that, but doesn't win the Shield or MLS Cup?

Will Curtis keep him around for the CL knockout games in 2017?

Will Curtis himself be here, to make that decision?

Perhaps Curtis will be under the radar, as RB focuses on Leipzig in the Bundesliga.


We are good enough to beat the best teams, and bad enough to lose to the worst teams. 


#5
ianuaditis

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Did Curtis actually say that wasn't good enough?  I thought it was a situation where he wanted his own guy.  Similar to how every GM in every sport operates.  If Curtis is going to be judged, he wants to at least have somebody he trusts in charge.

 

RB should have had 3-4 goals in the first half, but Marsch can't be on the field finishing.  

 

This league is always a crap shoot for the most part.  Get some supporter's shields if you can, make the playoffs, and hope for the best.  In my mind, the #1 priority for this year was advancing in Champs league.

This will probably destine us for the company of equine cadavers, but what he said was it wasn't about firing Petke, it was about bringing in Marsch.

 

The implication is definitely that Petke's considerable achievements were not good enough for Curtis, and (and this is the key,) that Marsch would be better.

 

New GMs often bring in their guy, but there are plenty of precedents for a successful coach to stay on even when a new GM is named. (NY NFL teams provide recent examples.)

 

in fact, most of the time a GM is removed its coming off a bad season where the coach had a higher chance of dismissal anyway.  I think you'd have a hard time coming up with a similar situation in sports where a popular and successful coach was removed, absent misconduct, after the performance Petke had as coach.


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#6
Komba

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This will probably destine us for the company of equine cadavers, but what he said was it wasn't about firing Petke, it was about bringing in Marsch.

 

The implication is definitely that Petke's considerable achievements were not good enough for Curtis, and (and this is the key,) that Marsch would be better.

 

New GMs often bring in their guy, but there are plenty of precedents for a successful coach to stay on even when a new GM is named. (NY NFL teams provide recent examples.)

 

in fact, most of the time a GM is removed its coming off a bad season where the coach had a higher chance of dismissal anyway.  I think you'd have a hard time coming up with a similar situation in sports where a popular and successful coach was removed, absent misconduct, after the performance Petke had as coach.

 

A GM was hired and he brought in his own guy.  It's really that simple people.

 

If Curtis failed here, he definitely wouldn't have been given another chance.  If any one of you had an opportunity like this, you'd bring in your own guy too.  It's just the way sports go and it happens in every single sport you can think of.

 

When Elway took over the Broncos, the two guys he's hired as head coach are guys he's familiar with and would be considered his guys.  When Phil Jackson took over the Knicks, he brought in guys who were his guys.  Not working out very well there, but it's still how successful people run their teams.



#7
ivo

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in fact, most of the time a GM is removed its coming off a bad season where the coach had a higher chance of dismissal anyway.  I think you'd have a hard time coming up with a similar situation in sports where a popular and successful coach was removed, absent misconduct, after the performance Petke had as coach.

Vicente del Bosque was fired by Real Madrid after winning a Spanish league title but failing to win the Champions League that year (having won the CL twice in the previous three seasons). Real also fired Capello (on two occasions) and Pelegrini after they won Spanish titles, as well as Ancelotti (a year removed from winning the CL).

 

Bayern and Man City have each announced Guardiola as an incoming manager with ~6 months to go in the current season. Worked okay for Bayern (Heynckes treble), not so great for City this year.



#8
Beowulf

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Bayern and Real are two teams that are expected to win every year. Every year they don't win something is looked upon like a failure.

 

We haven't won shit for 18 years until Petke showed up.



#9
Komba

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Bayern and Real are two teams that are expected to win every year. Every year they don't win something is looked upon like a failure.

 

We haven't won shit for 18 years until Petke showed up.

 

I would remove Petke's name there and put Henry's...

 

Maybe I'm wrong but I view that SS as more to do with Henry than Petke where the last SS had more to do with Marsch.   Just a big talent gap between last year's team and the team 2 years before then.

 

Petke was a good coach, but ultimately I think Marsch is better.

 

ANd it's clear the rest of the league didn't think a ton of Petke's coaching because the guy hasn't gotten another opportunity.



#10
ianuaditis

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I would remove Petke's name there and put Henry's...

 

Maybe I'm wrong but I view that SS as more to do with Henry than Petke where the last SS had more to do with Marsch.   Just a big talent gap between last year's team and the team 2 years before then.

 

Petke was a good coach, but ultimately I think Marsch is better.

 

ANd it's clear the rest of the league didn't think a ton of Petke's coaching because the guy hasn't gotten another opportunity.

 

the argument against that is Henry didn't win until Petke got here.  Unfortunately we will never know how Petke would have fared with this roster because he didn't get the opportunity. 

 

I like Marsch, but the knock on him in Montreal was that not all the players bought into his tactics.

 

We saw last year in the playoff loss he didn't make the right adjustments but stuck with the system to his detriment.

 

the question remains whether the current stretch of form is just form or if its more indicative of the league figuring things out, or the team not buying in 100% all game etc.

 

to quote a cliche, coaches are what their record says, and this is the year to determine whether Jesse is indeed a better coach.  I hope he is, no matter how much I liked Petke and wanted him to succeed, that's over now and these are the guys.


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#11
MTF

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What was done to Petke was unfair...he didn't deserve to be let go. However, what's done is done and it's very normal for a new GM to bring in his own guy.  Was Petke a great motivator? Absolutely.  But the team decided to implement a new style of play.  Curtis and Marsch said there's a five year plan for this club, and I would like to see them stick around for five years to see it through. Year One, winning a Supporters' Shield and again getting to within a game of MLS Cup, was a little unexpected and set the bar high (essentially Marsch did in one season what Petke did in his two seasons). This year, after a disastrous 1-6 start, Marsch and the team seem to have turned things around to their credit. I'd gladly forego the Shield and the US Open Cup this year if we were to get hot during the playoffs and finally win MLS Cup.  I like what's going on with Red Bulls II and the homegrown and recently acquired talent (Davis, Muyl, Bilyeu, Adams, Allen, Etienne, Speedy, etc.). I think that at the end of five years there could / should be a couple more trophies in the cabient. I also think that if the team underperforms this season letting Jesse go and starting over for the umpteenth time would be a mistake.



#12
hurricane1091

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I think Jesse is a good coach, but had made mistakes managing the game recently which has cost us. Players need to execute better too though.



#13
ivo

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Bayern and Real are two teams that are expected to win every year. Every year they don't win something is looked upon like a failure.

 

We haven't won shit for 18 years until Petke showed up.

The point was those managers did win something (the Spanish league, over freaking Barcelona), and management still fired them for other reasons, generally bringing a new, fancier coach. In the Bayern/City cases, managers weren't given a chance to save their job even if they succeeded (Heynckes won the treble).



#14
Beowulf

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The point was those managers did win something (the Spanish league, over freaking Barcelona), and management still fired them for other reasons, generally bringing a new, fancier coach. In the Bayern/City cases, managers weren't given a chance to save their job even if they succeeded (Heynckes won the treble).

 

The point is, we're not a team with decades of success under our belt. We're not Bayern.



#15
ivo

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The point is, we're not a team with decades of success under our belt. We're not Bayern.

No one has said we are Bayern. The team's stature wasn't a part of the hypothetical posted by ianuaditis, which was "I think you'd have a hard time coming up with a similar situation in sports where a popular and successful coach was removed, absent misconduct, after the performance Petke had as coach."

 

While I have listed similar situations (manager wins titles, gets fired anyway for not winning a more important title, for admittedly non-similar teams -- and of course Petke wasn't fired right after winning the SS), It is indeed hard to find a PERFECT match in the history of sports for what NYRB has done. So I guess it's hard to say Curtis was wrong before waiting and seeing what happens?






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