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Enough is enough!


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#31 GUNSLINGER

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 04:42 PM

so what about calling gay "gay"?

can we still address him as such?

is that too far?

can we still heckle the other team?

what about chants? Are those still allowed?

should I sit at games?

should we not enter the stadium under the influence?

should we boycott bruno because he plays a gay person?

i'm with frank. u iz allz gayzzzzzzz!!!!!!!

#32 dirtyboy

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 05:13 PM

Stop giving words so much power.

#33 bardgal

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 05:23 PM

wow.

I (personally - and as hard for SOME TO BELIEVE, Tommy and I are capable of independent thought) think this is pretty simple:

Some members of LARS find the use of "gay" and "queer" in the slur-ridden cheers we've been doing offensive. (I also thought "we are Scott, you are Lacy" hugely offensive, and told Dan to his face in San Jose when he had the original sign.)

and as Gen'Buck said on page 1 of this thread:

#3-
I sincerely hope people start viewing 'gay' chants as BEING A DICK. It seems like a long shot. See my signature below.


RULE #1 of LARS: DON'T BE A DICK.
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NĂ¡ glac pioc comhairle gan comhairle ban.

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#34 DirtyDefender

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 05:42 PM

I think he was rhetorically asking where specifically we are drawing this new line.

Exactamundo.

I am indeed wondering where this new line is supposed to be.

I've heard numerous people in 138 say they wish we wouldn't sing "I hate Chivas" songs.

I've also heard numerous people say they wish we wouldn't sing the "Tijuana Whore" song.

#35 Caasi Gohd

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 06:12 PM

If rule one is don't be a dick, then that should apply to people not trying to give the squad direct commands.

and I quote...


WE ARE ENDING ANY CHANTS ABOUT BEING GAY.

And yeah, there'll be no "Oh Sascha, you're so gay, you're so gay, the way you play HEY SASCHA!".




Just sayin'

#36 -stagnant-

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 06:32 PM

This is like that part in the Temptations movie when David Ruffin wanted to change the name of The Temptations to 'David Ruffin & The Temptations'.

Rev. Tommy Mack & The Los Angeles Riot Squad


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(sorry if offensive)

Edit: Again, I don't go to matches anymore so...ignore me.
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#37 andric

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 06:32 PM

If rule one is don't be a dick, then that should apply to people not trying to give the squad direct commands.

and I quote...


WE ARE ENDING ANY CHANTS ABOUT BEING GAY.

And yeah, there'll be no "Oh Sascha, you're so gay, you're so gay, the way you play HEY SASCHA!".


Just sayin'


I think there is an easy solution to all of this and DD had it right. Tommy & all can convince everyone that the Sasha chant is wrong not to do it If someone wants to start the Sasha chant after know that it is considered wrong, they can sing if they want.

If those you think it's wrong speak up and educate others around you and don't participate. When one or five people try to get the chant going and fail they will stop or can be drowned out by another more popular chant.

It's a free market chant-conomy come up with a better product or convince people that an existing product is bad and shouldn't be used.
------------------------------------------------------
"Chad Barrett was totally angry when he was subbed out. I think he was angry that he was Chad Barrett." - Chalky

#38 Hot Rod

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 06:44 PM

Sacha sucks and is having a crappy season. That is all I have to say.
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#39 DirtyDefender

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 07:06 PM

If those you think it's wrong speak up and educate others around you and don't participate. When one or five people try to get the chant going and fail they will stop or can be drowned out by another more popular chant.

Now see, that's kinda the thing: I've heard people complain about other chants in 138, but they only complain about the Sasha song on the message boards.

Combine that with most people don't read the message boards, and of those who do occasionally read the boards, very few of them ever read stuff in the "Riot Squad Game Time Chants", and they will never know that a group of people thought it was offensive and shouldn't be sung anymore.

Speaking of which, I now remember why I quit reading this forum.

#40 Slug

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 07:11 PM

Oh this should be fun come July 11th. We are dicks. If we were not, there'd be no such thing as ACB. So the next time Sacha comes over to 138 for a throw-in or free kick or what not, lets chant to the top of our lungs what we are... DICKS!!! DICKS!!! DICKS!!!

Let's Eat!


#41 josh24601

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 07:22 PM

This could have been handled better, but there is light at the end of the tunnel.

By handled better, I mean, basically, labeling something as bigoted and branding those who disagree as bigots (indirectly or not). Because then (as the previous pages can attest) it becomes about whether or not something is objectively offensive, when it's a very subjective situation. And we can all argue that until the Galaxy gets into the playoffs. Just because one person thinks it's offensive to them personally doesn't make it so, and vise versa. You can't tell Bardgal that she isn't hurt hearing it, because she is. You can't tell Gunslinger he should be offended, because he isn't. You'll never convince each other and you will lose focus of the real point anyways.

Rather than call people bigots and command them to stop, just keep it like, hey, this really bums some people out, so I'm not going to do it and I encourage other people not to, because the person next to you might really be hurt and offended by it, and we're not looking to do that to each other. Cool. We're all basically a pretty decent bunch, we don't want to be downers to the rest of the group, and that's what this is about. Appeal to that, and, well, you attract more flies with honey than shit, right?

But the same logic that applies to banning "gay" chants also applies to a lot of other shit, just by logic, that the same people who are crying foul now will turn around and do 5 minutes later. You don't get to pick and choose which "offensive" things you will or will not tolerate, or all we'll have left is LA CLAP CLAP CLAP GALAXY. It's not about dictating morality, it's about asking people to be cool to their fellow LARS. See the difference?

I only really give a shit about this because 1) I'd hate to see the PC Police start crossing chants off the LARS playbook, because we all know full well we do tons of offensive shit, and it's been that way long before I and lots of us others were ever around, and was pretty much ingrained from the very beginning. 2) I just like to fuck with Sacha, I don't care if calling him a dumb-dumb is what sets him off, so long as it happens. A Chivas game where we aren't in his head is a let down to me.

The light at the end of the tunnel, imo, is Andric to the rescue. This is just a better chant regardless of where you register on the "offended" scale:

Sacha lost the gold
Sacha lost the gold
Hi ho the derio
Sacha lost the gold

coupled with:

Posted Image


If this "gay" thing never came up, I'd still want to hit him with both these barrels anyways.

So, I am all about doing it this way because that screws his head up the most (and on our country's birthday, he needs to be reminded how he let Uncle Sam down).

As for trying to impose your personal definitions of "humor" and "bigotry" onto a big group of other people, well, that usually doesn't work out, as we can see.

#42 tracer

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 07:29 PM

how do you spell hypocrisy in lars...










p.s. you are all gay


EDIT: you know this wouldn't be a complete thread if i didn't post something

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#43 TommyMack

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 10:28 PM

Yes, I agree that CONTEXT is important. And I'm glad it's up for debate as I see that as a healthy thing for a group of our size. Nobody wants LARS to be uber-PC, hell... we WROTE the rules of dark sardonic wit in MLS. Even I've written on these boards "That's gay! And not the cool 'two guy's sucking each other's cocks gay', but the BAD kind of gay!" Does that cross the line? I personally don't think so, but perhaps it does and as a creative person, I can make my comedic points elsewhere.

I just think it's time to evolve this one out.

Still, I'm proud of LARS for stepping up in the thread with a very rational and timely discussion.

tm



People need to please reread the above and dial back the rhetoric a bit. Kneejerk reactions are not helpful, and neither are facetious analogies like "can we stand?!?".

Let's take another (calmer) approach to this. A few years back, Crew fans got into a lot of shit because there was a video taken from the stands where some idiots were yelling "You nigger!". You know what I'm talking about. Now, let's imagine someone filming in the middle of 138/137. Do we as a group want to be on video with several hundred people yelling, "YOU'RE SO GAY!!"? Or "GO BACK TO MEXICO!" Or "EAT MORE BANANAS!" or "YOU'RE JUST A CHINK!"

But let's cross to the other COMMON SENSE divide... would you mind being on video telling someone they suck? Or they go down like a Tijuana whore (Which, I personally want to say "down like an Air-France Jet")? Or see some ugly dude dressed as a priest? Or cheering for basic human rights (against China)? Or calling a place a suburb of somewhere else? Or even singing "I hate Chivas?" Seriously, there's a mile of difference.

Look, there's ribbing and riffing, and it's what we are good at and that SHOULD NOT STOP. But please use COMMON SENSE and do not try to muddy the issue with hyperbole. Using the term GAY in a derogatory sense simply is wrong. Hopefully, I don't need to continue explaining why.

Tommy Mack

PS: Isaac, do not try to make a paradox out of the dick rule; you are better than that.

#44 Dude Love

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 10:32 PM

First of all, Sacha isn't actually a Jew, so it's really just a funny chant.

Second, it's Sacha's fault that he poses for pictures that make him look like a Jew.

Third of all, that's a good point - no one complains during games about "Sacha, You're a Jew!" chants. We shouldn't let message boards decide whether we call someone a Jew or not.

Fourth - just calling someone "a Jew" isn't offensive. Look it up in the dictionary. How is it offensive to point out someone and say "Hey, Jew!"

Fifth - I'm not Jewish, but I've got Jewish friends. They don't mind being called Jews. It's what they ARE, after all.

I think we really need to take a common sense approach to this. The last thing we want to do, ever, is stifle creativity. We're trying to get in Sacha's head, we're trying to help our team, and we're trying to, most of all, have a good time. One of the ways we can do that is to scream, "HEY, KLJESTAN! YOU FUCKING JEW! YOU SUCK!"

If someone takes that the wrong way, how is that our fault?

#45 TommyMack

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 10:41 PM

"Hey Buddle, you're so black, you're so black the way you attack, hey Buddle!"
"Hey Feilhaber, you're such a jew, you're such a jew with what you do, hey Benny!"
"Arab soccer players are the bomb! Are the Bomb! Are the Bomb!"

Please tell me you see why these are wrong.

tm




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