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Hot and Kassel cut


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#76
MiLo4891

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Juan Pablo Angel
Dave van den Berg
Seth Stammler
Carlos Mendes
Jon Wolyniec
Mike Petke
Dwayne DeRosario
Tony Tchani
Austin de Luz
Danliegh Borman
Matt Kassel
Sacir Hot



What do all these players have in common?











If you said they were cut, traded or forced into retirement under Backe & Soler....you win a chicken dinner.

i feel like if you form a team with those guys they wod beat the current RBNY side
I just want Metro to win a title sometime in my lifetime.

#77
Brian.MLS

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God, I hate loving this team.

There for the start of the Curse of Caricola. There 17 years later for the end of the Curse of Caricola.

As long as I'm breathing. Metro/RBNY


#78
Arsenal14

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Stammler wasn't forced into retirement by anyone. He was playing (and playing well), but decided that an MBA from the U. of Chicago was worth more to him than playing soccer.

#79
redbull attack

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This team should call themselves Inter New York, simaler to Inter Milan. They both use a lot of non-domestic players.
I love pretty feet.

#80
gears

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Juan Pablo Angel
Dave van den Berg
Seth Stammler
Carlos Mendes
Jon Wolyniec
Mike Petke
Dwayne DeRosario
Tony Tchani
Austin de Luz
Danliegh Borman
Matt Kassel
Sacir Hot



What do all these players have in common?











If you said they were cut, traded or forced into retirement under Backe & Soler....you win a chicken dinner.

Wrong, based on the list's first name. :lol:

#81
Mynameisfutbol

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The player discovery and development processes at work in pro soccer here or anywhere might comprise a 'system' in some sense, but it's not 'Darwinian' and very far from 'perfect.'

Yes. Player discovery and development are part of a larger system, but the end result is a close to a Darwinian process as you can find. It might not be perfect but the sample data is large enough to suggest that it works. Can players fall through the process? Yes! Can players fail after being through the process? Yes!

Cheers

#82
irishapple21

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Juan Pablo Angel


Which ended up being the correct decision.

Dave van den Bergh

That was Agoos and Osorio, not Soler and Backe.

Seth Stammler

He left to get his Master's degree of his own accord.

Carlos Mendes

Not happy about this one. I'll give you that.

Jon Wolyniec


Cost a lot of money and not much left in the tank.

Mike Petke

Old and at the end of his career. He was happy to take a coaching job.

Dwayne DeRosario

This was definitely a head scratcher. Still doesn't make any sense.

Tony Tchani

Made sense at the time to get DeRo.

Austin de Luz

He washed out at DC Scum and it's not exactly hard to make it onto the field for that team.

Danleigh Borman

He ended up going home to South Africa after failing with other MLS teams. No big loss.

Matt Kassel
Sacir Hot



We haven't gotten the full picture yet with these guys, so who knows if it was a good decision yet. Let's see how this plays out.

Overall, you don't make much of a case. Sure, Soler and Backe have made some mistakes (a major one in DeRo's case), but overall, their cuts have made sense in the long run.

Loyal supporter of RBNY: 2013 Supporters' Shield Champions


#83
The Metrologist

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Yes. Player discovery and development are part of a larger system, but the end result is a close to a Darwinian process as you can find. It might not be perfect but the sample data is large enough to suggest that it works. Can players fall through the process? Yes! Can players fail after being through the process? Yes!

Cheers


Just what is your definition of a Darwinian process?
No one makes TV commercials to get people to look at their billboards.

#84
puhe

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I hate getting rid of young players, but, Is there any good evidence either of those two would develop into starter level talent?

#85
jamison

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We hear the same pissing and moaning with all the young guys who don't make it... but where are Chinn and Garcia and Da Luz and all the rest of them today? What other managers in the league are pouncing on them and developing them into the next superstar?


Eddie Gaven
Brad Davis
Ricardo Clark
Nick Rimando
Mike Magee
Jeff Parke
Todd Dunivant
Edson Buddle
Mike Petke

This list goes on and motherfucking on. All of those guys were young, American, and tossed aside at one point or another for a new direction, a quick fix, a pricey international, allocation money or just dumped. And ALL OF THEM went on to lift an MLS Cup, Supporter's Shield or Open Cup with ANOTHER MLS team. Yes, there are a lot of fucking Blake Camps and Tim Regans on the list of "left and never amounted to much" as well, but let's not act like this hasn't been a recurring theme with this team since jump. Suggesting that we don't have a history of discarding Americans only to have them play better somewhere else & win is just wildly ignorant of the facts. Were they all superstars after they left us? No. But they were all Winners. Meanwhile, we were losers.

All the fault of Backe & Soler? Hell no. But, are they repeating the same mistakes? I give them 2012 to prove me wrong, but it sure fucking looks like it.

Just taking teams from last year's final, if they want to go the LA path & not the Houston path, fine. But they have to (A) Realize that LA's path was made a lot easier with the young Americans (LD aside) they had and (b) they have to fucking WIN like LA did last year. They are spending $ 14m on a team. Don't give me this "squeak into the playoffs make it to the second round & go home" shit, fucking win all year & be nasty like LA did. Since Hurtado got called off-side vs. Chicago, we are a team that has never lived up to the potential of our roster.

You want to tell me this year's "young Americans" are Meara, Dax, Agudelo & Barrajo? Ok. Let's hope that more than 2 of those 4, if that many, are on the 2013 roster by opening day.

Also, people have some short fucking memories. All of this Kassel angst didn't just fall out of the sky. Remember the shit we gave Agoos & all of the back & forth about signing him, him going to college, u potentially losing his rights, us signing him back, being in the academy since he was 15 or whatever....? We've been waiting on this kid since Osorio days. It's the better part of 4+ years. The best Americans we've ever developed (Howard, Bradley, Altidore, maybe one day we'll say Ream), all leave before they win here.

This isn't just about today, and truth be told I can live without Matt Kassel on our team as long as we win, it's more about what him leaving represents. George Santayana wrote "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Say what you want, but we've been repeating the past for 15 fucking years. Enough already.

Please Sell My Team to Someone Who Cares. 


#86
onionsack

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http://www.bigapples...rticle_id=29791

Mandatory reading for anyone that cares about this team and where it is going....but i am sure some fuck face will chime in to defend the dckholes on charge.

RED BULL OUT!!! - True Soccer fans in NY since 2006


#87
onionsack

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Eddie Gaven
Brad Davis
Ricardo Clark
Nick Rimando
Mike Magee
Jeff Parke
Todd Dunivant
Edson Buddle
Mike Petke

This list goes on and motherfucking on. All of those guys were young, American, and tossed aside at one point or another for a new direction, a quick fix, a pricey international, allocation money or just dumped. And ALL OF THEM went on to lift an MLS Cup, Supporter's Shield or Open Cup with ANOTHER MLS team. Yes, there are a lot of fucking Blake Camps and Tim Regans on the list of "left and never amounted to much" as well, but let's not act like this hasn't been a recurring theme with this team since jump. Suggesting that we don't have a history of discarding Americans only to have them play better somewhere else & win is just wildly ignorant of the facts. Were they all superstars after they left us? No. But they were all Winners. Meanwhile, we were losers.

All the fault of Backe & Soler? Hell no. But, are they repeating the same mistakes? I give them 2012 to prove me wrong, but it sure fucking looks like it.

Just taking teams from last year's final, if they want to go the LA path & not the Houston path, fine. But they have to (A) Realize that LA's path was made a lot easier with the young Americans (LD aside) they had and (b) they have to fucking WIN like LA did last year. They are spending $ 14m on a team. Don't give me this "squeak into the playoffs make it to the second round & go home" shit, fucking win all year & be nasty like LA did. Since Hurtado got called off-side vs. Chicago, we are a team that has never lived up to the potential of our roster.

You want to tell me this year's "young Americans" are Meara, Dax, Agudelo & Barrajo? Ok. Let's hope that more than 2 of those 4, if that many, are on the 2013 roster by opening day.

Also, people have some short fucking memories. All of this Kassel angst didn't just fall out of the sky. Remember the shit we gave Agoos & all of the back & forth about signing him, him going to college, u potentially losing his rights, us signing him back, being in the academy since he was 15 or whatever....? We've been waiting on this kid since Osorio days. It's the better part of 4+ years. The best Americans we've ever developed (Howard, Bradley, Altidore, maybe one day we'll say Ream), all leave before they win here.

This isn't just about today, and truth be told I can live without Matt Kassel on our team as long as we win, it's more about what him leaving represents. George Santayana wrote "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Say what you want, but we've been repeating the past for 15 fucking years. Enough already.


:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Three cheers!

RED BULL OUT!!! - True Soccer fans in NY since 2006


#88
onionsack

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Which ended up being the correct decision.

Dave van den Bergh

That was Agoos and Osorio, not Soler and Backe.

Seth Stammler

He left to get his Master's degree of his own accord.

Carlos Mendes

Not happy about this one. I'll give you that.

Jon Wolyniec


Cost a lot of money and not much left in the tank.

Mike Petke

Old and at the end of his career. He was happy to take a coaching job.

Dwayne DeRosario

This was definitely a head scratcher. Still doesn't make any sense.

Tony Tchani

Made sense at the time to get DeRo.

Austin de Luz

He washed out at DC Scum and it's not exactly hard to make it onto the field for that team.

Danleigh Borman

He ended up going home to South Africa after failing with other MLS teams. No big loss.

Matt Kassel
Sacir Hot



We haven't gotten the full picture yet with these guys, so who knows if it was a good decision yet. Let's see how this plays out.

Overall, you don't make much of a case. Sure, Soler and Backe have made some mistakes (a major one in DeRo's case), but overall, their cuts have made sense in the long run.


You are like the poster child for castration.

RED BULL OUT!!! - True Soccer fans in NY since 2006


#89
MetroFanatic

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So, what you are saying is that you can't respond to reasonable analysis? Okay, thanks for clearing that up.

Even if some of these moves look to be good moves when looking back, you can't take them one at a time. And once you put all these moves together, you get what we have now, 16 years of utter failure.

Throughout these 16 years, the team has been consistent in one thing: it always, ALWAYS gets rid of its young American players. And, as pointed out above, many of these players go on to achieve and win ELSEWHERE. This happened every single year, under even single coach and every single general manager. And the team has failed time and time again.

We don't know if Hot and Kassel will ever amount to anything in MLS. We don't know if they are better than the trialists they are bringing it to replace them. But what we do know is that there is a formula to win in MLS: it's to build with young American players and augment it with smart international signings. It's been done again, again, and again. Just never by us.
MetroFanatic.com. Metro Forever.

#90
juberish

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I will as soon as you identify yourself at El Pastor this season and stop hiding behind your screen name.


you're funny

but on topic... I just think the nature of managing an MLS team forces you into decisions like this. It comes down to how much you can squeeze out of the cap and Soler\Backe have a "win now" approach that doesnt give us the warm fuzzies we all want.

IMHO, part of the issue is how the league rules force you into situations like this. There's more than enough quotes from MLS executives to let us know that they're aware of a problem and that they want to expand the reserve league. The recent tweeks to the roster rules for allowing 30 players, etc... but the league leaves you that incentive... if I cut these two players I can get 70k in allocation that I can use to pay down the cost of one of my "win now" player salaries. So MLS knows what kind of players occupy those roster spots and they incentivize not using them.... we can't really villainize the FO for taking advantage of this.




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